Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
.30 WCF with 220 grain bullets?
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4743
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
August 13, 2023 - 11:10 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

At times, I have pondered loading some heavier bullets in the .30 WCF.

In doing some research, I ran into this from John Kort (2008 – cast boolits site):

I shoot the Lyman 311284 (220 gr. in w.w.+2% tin heat treated) in my .30-30’s. In my Marlins (10″ twist) I have actually gotten some 4″ groups @ 200 yards with subsonic loads (1,100 f.p.s.)

I load the bullet so that the base is even with the bottom of the case neck which means that it is a load one at a time ino the chamber proposition.

For ringing “Homer” the 1,000 yard steel buffalo, I use 34 grs. of H414 and in a 26″ barrel, it launches that 220 gr. bullet @ 2,000 f.p.s.

I had that load tested at a ballistics lab and, surprisingly, it was 5% below SAAMI MAP for the .30-30.

Have fun!
w30wcf

I also just read that at one time, DWM loaded a 200 grain softpoint factory load for the .30-30.

 

What’s the experience out there with our group?

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 11799
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
August 13, 2023 - 11:19 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Steve,

A 220 grain bullet is too heavy to shoot accurately in a Winchester rifle (Model 1894) chambered for the 30 WCF.  The rifling twist rate used by Winchester for the 30 WCF was 1:12 and as such, it will not adequately stabilize a 220-gr bullet.  The optimum bullet weight for the 30 WCF was a 170-grain bullet.

Bert

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5712
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
August 13, 2023 - 11:43 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Steve-

I have not tried it, John lost me at the single loading. 170 is about as heavy as I’ve gone for 30WCF and 32WS. I wasn’t able to find a 311284 mould when working up loads for the 30US but my 312299 drops around 209 grains. Pretty sure it would be a single load proposition as well. Other problem is that I generally shoot my old lever guns at 50 yards these days and am not much interested in subsonic or long range. 
A 220 grain bullet @ 2000 fps is intriguing, however.  If I had a SS with a chamber that would accommodate a looooong bullet I’d be  hunting up a 311284 mould. Is H414 still available?

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4743
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
August 15, 2023 - 12:07 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I realize there are various conventions that tell us what twist rates will stabilize what weight bullets and these are typically accurate and provide a good prediction of what will happen.  However, that is not always the case when individual experimentation comes into play.  I am often intrigued by the results of other’s experimentation.  John Kort’s experience was quite interesting.  

I was perusing some old Handloads.com data and a fellow was shooting a 220 grain round nose jacketed bullet in his .30-30 (a Model 94).  He advised that if loading the rounds into the magazine, “flat top the tip with a file.”  I don’t know if this was for safety sake or perhaps it made the difference in being able to cycle the rounds through the action.  He suggested 1900 fps and qualified this as a, “lowball estimate” (this aligns with John’s Kort’s velocity report).

This fellow’s top load was 30 grains of H335 and he suggested 27 grains as a starting load.  He reported, “Shoots one inch below a 170 gr. Silvertip load.”  And he added, “Great for animals that need lots of penetration like bear.”  Smile

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5712
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
August 15, 2023 - 2:19 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Steve-
I think the “M” word was a key part of John’s formula. The 336’s 1:10 twist and likely Microgroove rifling probably handled the heavy bullet better than a 94. An early 36 or 336 with conventional rifling have handled it even better but I was never interested enough to try it out.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4743
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
August 15, 2023 - 6:10 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said
Steve-

I think the “M” word was a key part of John’s formula. The 336’s 1:10 twist and likely Microgroove rifling probably handled the heavy bullet better than a 94. An early 36 or 336 with conventional rifling have handled it even better but I was never interested enough to try it out.

 

Mike

  

I wouldn’t go out an buy the bullets just to try it out.  However, given the bullets are already here, it’s a bit more tempting.  The problem is I like to keep the experimentation with my vintage/collectible Winchesters to a minimum.  I do some testing of various bullet/powder combinations but I stay in well-charted territory.  To venture into minimally charted territory … is something I prefer watching others do Wink  

Avatar
Eastern Iowa
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 272
Member Since:
February 22, 2021
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
August 15, 2023 - 9:18 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Never considered a 220gr bullet for 30-30. 170-180gr bullets have always done the trick for me. I find the 220 to sit too deep in the case for 30-40 and 30-06 so I would assume it would be even deeper into a 30-30. 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5117
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
August 16, 2023 - 4:19 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

steve004 said

I wouldn’t go out an buy the bullets just to try it out.  However, given the bullets are already here, it’s a bit more tempting.  The problem is I like to keep the experimentation with my vintage/collectible Winchesters to a minimum.  I do some testing of various bullet/powder combinations but I stay in well-charted territory.  To venture into minimally charted territory … is something I prefer watching others do Wink  

  

Find the max OAl of the loaded round then play with bullet seating depth. You may find a sweeter spot?  Depending on what animal you are shooting you may single feed the ammo and if so this really opens up your seating depth choices. 

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5712
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
August 16, 2023 - 4:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I guess I’m not going to get to play along at home. My “heavy” 30 cal bullet has a long nose and the crimp groove is not far from the base. Works fine in an 1895 or a bolt gun, don’t think my 1894’s will like it.

 

Mike

 

9E4050C3-B209-4C26-8F1A-5F7CFB92A9F9.jpegImage Enlarger

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 4623
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 7119
TXGunNut: 5712
Chuck: 5117
steve004: 4743
1873man: 4507
Big Larry: 2463
twobit: 2372
mrcvs: 1985
TR: 1802
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 18
Topics: 13675
Posts: 120735

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1929
Members: 9388
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation