Can anyone tell me who developed the .236 Navy cartridge? Looking online, one site says it was developed by James Paris Lee other sights seem to allude to the US navy and Marines developing the .236. I realize that the Navy and Marines had Winchester, Remington and others design a bolt action rifle chambering the cartridge but was it designed by them.
It is my understanding that Winchester developed the .236 U.S.N. cartridge for the initial trial tests. The earliest rifles chambered for it were the Winchester Single Shot. Winchester eventually manufactured a total of (21) Single Shot rifles & muskets chambered for the 236 U.S.N. cartridge. The first three rifles were in the 69000 serial number range.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
[email protected] said
Can anyone tell me who developed the .236 Navy cartridge? Looking online, one site says it was developed by James Paris Lee other sights seem to allude to the US navy and Marines developing the .236. I realize that the Navy and Marines had Winchester, Remington and others design a bolt action rifle chambering the cartridge but was it designed by them.
It is my understanding that James Paris Lee merely designed the U.S. Navy Lee Rifle. And that Winchester designed the ammunition before the firearm was selected by the Navy. Also that the early .236 USN Cartridge used / designed was a Rimmed cartridge. But later on the Navy went to a Rimless cartridge.
I’ve always found this interesting. As for a few years the Winchester Model 1894 Reloading Tool was cataloged listing the .236 Navy caliber. But by the March 1898 Catalog the .236 Navy caliber is dropped from the caliber list. Which I assume means that because the Navy went to the Rimless cartridge the Reloading Tool was now useless for the .236 Navy caliber. But that said I have yet to confirm this and have yet to locate a 1894 Tool chambered in .236 Navy. That said I don’t know how the 1894 Tool could be used to reload a Rimless cartridge.
The only caliber in the 1894 Tool in other than a Rimmed cartridge is a in the .401 Self Loading, which is a “Semi-Rimless” cartridge. So the tool still works for it.
Here is a article that discusses the Rimmed Vs Rimless .236 Navy.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/05/6mm-lee-navy-rimmed-semi-rimmed-or-rimless/
I have no idea whom at Winchester actually designed the cartridge, but with a lot of such design work it became the property of WRACo.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Thanks ,I have been looking for the loading tool you mention but given the fact that at the time Winchester made roughly 1700 sporting rifles there would likely be small if any demand as the military wouldn’t be hand loading. The cartridges are not easily sourced, so far I picked up a Winchester box wit 8 rounds and a UMC stripper clip with 5 rounds.
While it was cataloged for four years, I have yet to locate one and doubt very many were ever produced. I’ve talked with several well rounded collectors that don’t have one. But you never know when one will show up.
The Rimmed Cartridges are very scarce and prized by ammo collectors as well.
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
[email protected] said
Thanks ,I have been looking for the loading tool you mention but given the fact that at the time Winchester made roughly 1700 sporting rifles there would likely be small if any demand as the military wouldn’t be hand loading. The cartridges are not easily sourced, so far I picked up a Winchester box wit 8 rounds and a UMC stripper clip with 5 rounds.
Do you have the Military or the commercial box? The Military boxes have 20 rounds on stripper clips. How do you know it is a UMC clip? There is a difference between the Winchester and UMC clips. The Remington Lee is not exactly the same rifle and came in many calibers. I believe the Military rifles came in 45-70.
I have the commercial 2 piece ,20 round box, it has the label with the same graphics marked US NAVY, SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION IN CLIPS as shown in Shuey and Giles book on page 230 . It has a Green Label and the Sunburst which according to the book indicates Soft Point bullets. As far as the stripper clip, I can’t verify it is of UMC manufacture, it has PAT. OCT. 8 95 on the base and a spring steel metal tab that when turned 90 degrees releases the cartridges. The clip is loaded with 5 UMC stamped cupronickel jacketed bullets. I own Both a Remington Lee Sporting Rifle in 303 British and a Lee Navy in 30 US
David, the only real differences between the Winchester clips and the UMC clips are sometimes the UMC are much shinier and the Patent date is not struck as deep. The 2 piece clips are the hardest to buy. The valuable rounds are the early rimmed cases. 5 rounds and a clip run from $200 to $300 for the semi rimmed military rounds. Singles are worth about $30 ea. The rimmed ones can run over $300. I have a Military and a sporter.
If you don’t have Eugene Myszkowski’s book you need to buy it. I don’t know of another book but if you ever find one let me know. Eugene passed away not so long ago. His book is the best but these rifles were changing faster than any book could keep up with so it is not unusual to have a variation not in the book. One 20 round box without clips says for Machine Gun too.
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