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1946 Mod 70 .300 Savage
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June 19, 2016 - 7:54 pm
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Just picked one up in about 80% except pad added. Blue Book doesn’t discuss value due to rarity. My Fladermans is 4-5 years old gives $8300 at very good. I have NO idea on something this rare. Bert, I’ll have it at Reno if not sold before then. Usual spot. I also have a pre-War 220 Swift Super Grade (set back with some stock work) and an 1898 Mod 92 redone to 18 1/2″ carbine in 357 I’ll keep assuming I can get it to reliably cycle. Smooth action & nice trigger.

Maybe I should rechamber the 300 Savage to something more useful? Wink

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June 19, 2016 - 8:55 pm
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Rechamber the 300 Savage to something more useful? The 300 Savage is the rarest chambering with 362 manufactured (.06% of total M70 production)….

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June 19, 2016 - 10:35 pm
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Only 362? Doesn’t that mean nobody liked ? Wink

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June 20, 2016 - 1:29 pm
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The 300 Savage and 35 Remington were both produced in small numbers right after WWII.  While 300 Savage was hugely popular in the Savage M99, it did not occupy much of a ‘niche’ in the M70 line, and reportedly both the 300 Savage and 35 Remington had extraction problems in the M70 due to the relatively short case shoulder.  The 300 Savage never even made it into the regular Winchester Firearms catalog, although it was assigned “catalog symbols” – four of them – and was featured in some Winchester promotional material, e.g. Salesman’s Handbooks.  

As far was I know, all the 300 Savage barrels were made in something like late ’46 or early ’47.  About half the reported 362 rifles were assembled 1947-1948 (more or less) and the rest of the barrels were used up during the “barrel clean up” that occurred 1951-1952 (more or less).

As to value…  The 300 Savage is among the most often “faked” M70 (rifles assembled with a non-factory replica barrel).  I would guess that a “real” 300 Savage barrel alone, that had not been refinished (markings buffed away), was not rusted, had not been shortened, and had a good bore, would be worth a couple thousand dollars (without the gun), as someone would use it to “build” a “factory genuine” 300 Savage.  After all, an “original” pre-war 270 carbine barrel sold this weekend on Ebay for over $1000, which you can bet will find it’s way onto an action and into an auction…  (How’s that for alliteration?)

It’s hard to say what the 80% rifle with pad would be worth.  Assuming no non-factory modifications to the action (extra holes), could be $4-5K???  That seems to be about what “refinished/refurbished/fakes” are selling for in major auctions.  Everything else being equal, with a correct replacement stock the price would go higher.  But personally, I think the $8K or higher price tag would be more likely to come into play with a higher condition all original example.

Then again, you never know….

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June 20, 2016 - 6:53 pm
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Thanks for your time to post. Being a collector for half a century, a custom stock maker, and dealing at approximately 750 gun shows, I have a good opinion of when guns have been faked or modified. Having spent most of that time in So Cal, it was hard to find anything that had not been faked. When I stated this gun was 80%, I was being conservative. It has a bit of bluing missing from the magazine/triggerguard area as normal for a gun that was used. Naturally, no extra holes, set back barrel, carved initials, etc. It is a one owner gun and grandpa died. As for refinished/refurbished/fakes, those are irrelevant in this case. As for dropping $4000 for a recoil pad added, that would take a couple hundred for an original so I do not understand your reasoning. The same is true if someone had a barrel. You could replace the action and stock for under a grand, so the estimate of $1000-2000 for a barrel alone is unreasonable. It would be MUCH higher. My question was rather up front, I thought. It was how reasonable the Fladerman’s $8300 estimate was for very good condition, especially considering the valuation is about 5 years old. Now on something of this rarity, values are hard to make (kudoes to Blue Book for not trying). At auction, two or more interested parties might bid ANYTHING. I am simply trying to get a basic idea of value. It is certainly true that valuations can reflect the motives of the person making the evaluation. In the Blue Book, different people are chosen who have knowledge in the field. In reality, it can be a person who wants the values high for his personal sales or a predator who wants the values 1/3 of reality so they can buy cheaply. I know one of the latter. So, at the moment, I haven’t had any value information added, but have had some interesting factoids given, and many thanks for those.

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June 20, 2016 - 11:01 pm
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Hi Peter-

I apologize if you found my thoughts on value unrealistic (and a waste of your time).  No intent to mislead or undervalue.  Just my own opinion (FWIW) based on following the collectable M70 market rather closely.  Sounds like your rifle is perhaps in better condition than I had thought based on your brief description, which naturally would increase its value.

I have zero interest in being “predatory” in your case, as I currently own two M70 rifles in that chambering (acquired over 35 years of collecting) that I believe are authentic.  Frankly, I’d be scared of buying one today unless it had the kind of provenance you describe.  In fact the recent profusion of “fakes” is one factor I think negatively impacts the value of genuine “rare” M70s.  Lots of people have become “gun shy” over the last couple of years.

Good luck finding that original unaltered 18-line checkered cloverleaf tang (transition) stock in nice condition!!!  With that (and neglecting to disclose the exchange – as certain ‘purist’ collectors would be put off) you may indeed have an $8500 gun (IMHO).  

If you have seen any 95% Standard Grade M70s in 300 Savage sell for more than that, please send me the link (as it might help me ‘value’ my own guns)…

Best wishes,

Lou

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June 21, 2016 - 2:52 pm
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PeterB said
Thanks for your time to post. Being a collector for half a century, a custom stock maker, and dealing at approximately 750 gun shows, I have a good opinion of when guns have been faked or modified. Having spent most of that time in So Cal, it was hard to find anything that had not been faked. When I stated this gun was 80%, I was being conservative. It has a bit of bluing missing from the magazine/triggerguard area as normal for a gun that was used. Naturally, no extra holes, set back barrel, carved initials, etc. It is a one owner gun and grandpa died. As for refinished/refurbished/fakes, those are irrelevant in this case. As for dropping $4000 for a recoil pad added, that would take a couple hundred for an original so I do not understand your reasoning. The same is true if someone had a barrel. You could replace the action and stock for under a grand, so the estimate of $1000-2000 for a barrel alone is unreasonable. It would be MUCH higher. My question was rather up front, I thought. It was how reasonable the Fladerman’s $8300 estimate was for very good condition, especially considering the valuation is about 5 years old. Now on something of this rarity, values are hard to make (kudoes to Blue Book for not trying). At auction, two or more interested parties might bid ANYTHING. I am simply trying to get a basic idea of value. It is certainly true that valuations can reflect the motives of the person making the evaluation. In the Blue Book, different people are chosen who have knowledge in the field. In reality, it can be a person who wants the values high for his personal sales or a predator who wants the values 1/3 of reality so they can buy cheaply. I know one of the latter. So, at the moment, I haven’t had any value information added, but have had some interesting factoids given, and many thanks for those.  

Steve-

I interpreted the word “no” in “Naturally, no extra holes, set back barrel, carved initials, etc.” as meaning that NONE of these modifications were present.  Pictures would certainly help though…  There’s quite a span between “about 80% with pad added” and “a bit of blue missing from the magazine/trigger guard area”.  Would also be curious about the serial number (stated as a ’46) and barrel date stamp.  If these barrels were all made late ’46 (as Rule claims), it would be a little odd if the barrel were on an early ’46 (late type I-4 action), wouldn’t it?

I wasn’t knocking 50% off the price b/c of a pad alone, but b/c of the stated 80% finish and added pad (no offense was intended).  Of course I think that finding the period correct uncut stock may prove a bit more of a challenge that Peter implies. 

Part of my assessment of the “value” was also driven by my perception that many people have been “put off” of rare M70s by all the deliberate fakes out there (in major auctions/dealers) over the past couple-odd years.  Collectors who really know these rifles and can identify fakes (like you) are probably going to lean toward all original and nice condition examples, while “investors” (who may not be confident about what they are looking at) are going to shy away from purchases in a market flooded with non-original replicas.

My perception is that the 4-5 year old Flayderman’s mentioned in the original post was written at a “peak” in a “bubble market”, and that prices (for reasons stated above) have become flat or somewhat down from there.  Am I wrong?

Cheers,

Lou

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June 21, 2016 - 6:51 pm
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Lou, you are correct, and I got in a hurry reading post. I will delete my post so as not to confuse anyone. Thanks for the correction.

Steve

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