Log In
Members
Home
Add Reply
Add Topic
Offline
To All;
I was looking back at some old forum threads and wondered if perhaps anyone out there in the wilderness of Winchester land would know if the Winchester Model 1876 that “Range Detective” Tom Horn carried was in caliber 40-60 WCF? As I recall when reading about the killing of the teen age boy that got old T. Horn hung, it was said to be a 40-60 WCF that did the trick. does anyone know if it was or wasn’t?
Apache (Ya Ta Hey)
These are photos of a 76 chambered in 45-60 and reportedly this 76 is the Tom Horn gun. I don’t know much about this gun. Other than to say the photos were taken by Stewart Smith, a great photographer who did majority of the photography if not all of the photos in Ed Lewis’ 1 of 1000 book. Mr. Stewart Smith used to have a website that hosted these photos and a couple others of 1 of 1000s, along with other photos of his work. The website link I have no longer works, and a search to find any newer website has been unfruitful for me.
I suppose the next step would be trying to contact Ed Lewis to see what he knows.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
An interesting topic, that’s for sure. In the 1980 movie “Tom Horn” starring Steve McQueen, the Tom Horn character uses a .45-60 Model 1876. However, I cannot find any historical evidence that the real Tom Horn ever carried a Model 1876.
The National Cowboy Hall of Fame has a Model 1894, SN 82,667 that Tom Horn supposedly gave to Wyoming rancher C.B. Irwin in 1903. It is a .30 WCF, half magazine round barrel rifle. The survey data I have show it was shipped June 19, 1900. I don’t know anything more about it, so will not speculate on whether it was used in any of the killings credited to Horn.
On a totally different matter, there were several Model 1876 rifles used by the cattlemen during the 1892 Johnson County, Wyoming invasion. Model 1876 rifles and carbines in .40-60, .45-60 and .45-75 are documented as being used by the cattlemen and the hired Texas gunmen.
Paging win4575 to a white courtesy phone. Anything to add, Rick?
I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder
As a long time collector and student of the model 1876, for years I’ve tried to find something of fact, that tells me Tom Horn had a ’76 while in Wyoming. I have never found anything. He may have had one while in Arizona, but even that is strictly speculation. While traveling in southern Arizona in April of 1995, we found a great antique store in Benson and because it was snowing to beat the band, we decided to stay in an RV park that night and head for Tombstone the next afternoon. That was the night (April 19) we heard on the news about the Murrah building bombing in OK City. Sure was a dreadful night. We left the park the next morning and went over to the antique shop. So much gun and cowboy stuff, I just about went nuts. The guy who owed the store had a wooden ammo crate for .45-60, which I want to buy. Come to find out, NOTHING in the store was for sale except souvenirs. In the conversation, this guy told us that the .45-60 model ’76 used in the Tom Horn movie was his and that he had loaned it to the production company. We never saw that gun or any of the other hundred Winchesters he claimed to have. He never said anything about this rifle having any historical connection to Tom Horn. As I remember, he did mention that Steve McQueen had offered to buy the gun, but that it was not for sale. He was a very strange gentleman, so how much of his story was true, I don’t know. If anyone has a documented serial number (not interested in hearsay) for an 1876 model Winchester that belonged to Tom Horn, I’d like to add that number to my list.
I’ve never put any research into the Tom Horn topic, but would imagine his murder case was well documented. So I would assume the rifle used was documented, but don’t know for sure. His death sentence was a landmark case, as I do believe him having to step on a platform to hang himself was a real thing, and not Hollywood flair.
I’ve always found it interesting that he shot the boy but the boy was wearing his father’s hat and coat. I know there has been more than one TV drama that investigated the murder of the boy. The History Channel has some docs on it.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Managed to score this post card announcement of the pending sale of Tom Horn’s Model 1894 rifle on January 24, 2015. No serial number was listed, but said it was one of numerous items from the C.B. Irwin Estate. I have no information concerning the purchaser. Roger B Hope you can enlarge it.
It would appear to me that this bit of information would appear in the court case records…which should be a very interesting read.
James
So much speculation, but it seems the closer you get to Wyoming, the more guns you find that belonged to Tom Horn…
I have seen mention of Horn using a 30-30 but I have never done any research to back this up.
I saw the (claimed to be) Tom Horn 1894 on display at the Cody Firearns Museum in the Buffalo Bill wing a few years ago when we visited. Pretty sure it had been (poorly in my opinion) refinished.
Don
jwm94 said
It would appear to me that this bit of information would appear in the court case records…which should be a very interesting read.James
I’ve got a feeler out to a friend who would know, but I don’t want to impose. Will advise if/when he gets back to me.
Unrelated (sort of) I once shot a Pronghorn on the very land the Horn incident took place (according to the Outfitter) – Cheyenne area. Yes, I used a Winchester, model 70 in .270. True or not, makes for a great story with the hunting buddies back home!
Interesting read here: https://www.tom-horn.com/
Horn had a 30-30 model 94 when caught, but had 45-60, 30-40 and 38-40 cartridge(s) in his pocket(s). The victims cloths are lost, but were used at trial. The holes in the body were said to be too large to be 30 caliber. I don’t think it’s a hanging offense, but there does seem to be a failure to settle on a weapon. Jeesh, Tom, make up your mind!
I had heard the victim’s family and a neighbor’s family had a longstanding, violent feud going on. But a point new to me from another article I read: Apparently the victim’s father was shot a few days later, but lived. Horn allegedly had an alibi.
There must be an explanation for his purportedly having a 45-60 1876 and 40-60 ammo in his pocket.
I guess I could at least make a “mock-up” display of the Tom Horn style by putting my 1873 in 38-40, 1876 in 45-60, 1894 in 30-40 and 1894 in 30WCF half octagon mounted on a board. I don’t think I’d frame it with rope.
Here’s my half octagon, a little late for Horn I believe being from 1911
I wonder if the 38-40 was for a revolver? I haven’t seen 40-60 referenced, but I wouldn’t doubt it. Finally, Mr. Horn, I don’t like to think of my characters from western history carrying loose rounds around in their pockets. It makes you seem almost human. You are supposed to have an awesome gun belt, with loops, mostly filled, but with a few empty loops.
Huck Riley said
I’ve got a feeler out to a friend who would know, but I don’t want to impose. Will advise if/when he gets back to me.
Good luck on that, Huck.
Most counties have microfilmed rolls of the local newspaper(s). Court cases, news, and coroner reports are generally very well detailed. Two of my Uncles was charged with murder. One for blowing an unarmed man away with a double barrel shotgun and buckshot while he was standing at the gate of a home back in 1857 Texas, and another for pulling his gun and killing his cousin’s beau in self defense about eighty or ninety years later who was armed with a knife. One rode off and left his wife and two kids behind never to be heard from again, and my great grandfather, who was an accomplice, broke out of jail and went back to Mississippi. My other Uncle was acquitted after the jury deliberated for ten minutes. After the War Between the States, my great grandfather came back to Texas…stood trial….even drew his six-gun during court proceedings…and served no time for his offense. Nothing quite like good old American history!
Again, good luck!
James
jwm94 said
Huck Riley said
I’ve got a feeler out to a friend who would know, but I don’t want to impose. Will advise if/when he gets back to me.
Good luck on that, Huck.
Most counties have microfilmed rolls of the local newspaper(s). Court cases, news, and coroner reports are generally very well detailed. Two of my Uncles was charged with murder. One for blowing an unarmed man away with a double barrel shotgun and buckshot while he was standing at the gate of a home back in 1857 Texas, and another for pulling his gun and killing his cousin’s beau in self defense about eighty or ninety years later who was armed with a knife. One rode off and left his wife and two kids behind never to be heard from again, and my great grandfather, who was an accomplice, broke out of jail and went back to Mississippi. My other Uncle was acquitted after the jury deliberated for ten minutes. After the War Between the States, my great grandfather came back to Texas…stood trial….even drew his six-gun during court proceedings…and served no time for his offense. Nothing quite like good old American history!
Again, good luck!
James
Yeah, old west history is fun. I still eat up every issue of Wild West and True West.
When I was in law school back in the day, I did some research on cases and came across a shirt-tail relative in Texas back in the 1800s. He was passing through a town, and spent the night at a boarding house. Upon leaving in the morning, he was walking down the front walkway toward the street, where the land-lady and some man were talking by the picket fence gate. My relative failed to tip his hat to the lady and the man called him out on it. There was a fight, whereupon the man pulled a gun on the relative. The relative took the gun away and killed the man with it. He was charged with murder and acquitted on self-defense. Sounds good to me.
As to Horn, my friend is a Laramie County Attorney in Cheyenne. I thought he may have access to the criminal file, and texted him, but like I said, I don’t want to push. I’m sure he’s got better things to do and he’s a busy man. Further, my research shows there has been nary a stone left un-turned in the historical research of the case. I’m sure diggers have gone deep on everything, and all the records are probably part of the local historical museum. But who knows, maybe he’ll get a wild hair and come across something. I just won’t hold my breath.
Huck Riley said
Yeah, old west history is fun. I still eat up every issue of Wild West and True West.
When I was in law school back in the day, I did some research on cases and came across a shirt-tail relative in Texas back in the 1800s. He was passing through a town, and spent the night at a boarding house. Upon leaving in the morning, he was walking down the front walkway toward the street, where the land-lady and some man were talking by the picket fence gate. My relative failed to tip his hat to the lady and the man called him out on it. There was a fight, whereupon the man pulled a gun on the relative. The relative took the gun away and killed the man with it. He was charged with murder and acquitted on self-defense. Sounds good to me.
As to Horn, my friend is a Laramie County Attorney in Cheyenne. I thought he may have access to the criminal file, and texted him, but like I said, I don’t want to push. I’m sure he’s got better things to do and he’s a busy man. Further, my research shows there has been nary a stone left un-turned in the historical research of the case. I’m sure diggers have gone deep on everything, and all the records are probably part of the local historical museum. But who knows, maybe he’ll get a wild hair and come across something. I just won’t hold my breath.
Huck, in my previous post, make that a “gun” with the wound looking as if “about nine large buckshot” hit him in the stomach and chest. This according to one witness. Another statement by the jurors reads, “…came to his death by means of a gun shot wound of nine leaden bullets, or shot, shot from a gun loaded with powder and said bullets or shot…” The coroner wrote, “…by firing a double barrelled shot gun…” (Had to recheck the court case, hard to read as well,.)
Great story there, thank you!
Yes, hope your friend can help out on this, and maybe fine some direct evidence as to the model and caliber of the rifle in question.
James
1 Guest(s)
