Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
1866 Cleaning Rod Cover
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Port Orchard, WA
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 15
Member Since:
March 20, 2024
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
March 27, 2024 - 3:10 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I’ve seen a few Model 1866 Rifles and SRC’s with different cleaning rod covers in the butt plate. Was there one standard cover on the ‘66 or did they differ between rifle and SRC? 

Also what was the standard front sight on the ‘66? Or again, does it differ between models? The reason I ask is because I’m looking to buy a 1866 and want something as close to original as possible. 

Any tips on what to look for as far as modifications or changes that would affect the value would also be appreciated. I’m worried about getting into a rifle that has been modified or changed so much that it ruins it’s value. Thanks.

Do you have any experiences or memories of the old Winchester Gun Museum in New Haven?

If you do, let’s chat

20240318_185829-2.jpeg

Avatar
Wisconsin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4317
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
March 27, 2024 - 4:26 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The rifle butt plates and carbines had are different except the early carbines used a rifle butt plate.

Here is a check list of features on the 66 so you can determine is the gun is all from the same era. This came from a collector who uses this to double check a gun before buying. He compiled it from several books and personal experience. Some number ranges will over lap or have gaps since it was compiled from different sources. I give no guarantee to the accuracy of any information.
Serial numbers begin at 12,000. 1st models 12,000 to 19,000 – 2nd models 19,000 to 25,000 – 3rd models 25,000 to 149,000 and 4th model 149,000 to 170,000 these numbers are approximate. 1st models have a extra wood screw on the top tang behind the hammer. The serial number is on the top of the stock & left side of the lower tang. From 19,000 to 139,000 the serial number is on the bottom of the tang behind the trigger and after that the serial number is at the rear of the tang in a script style. Below serial number 20,000 the butt plate has the complete serial number on it usually. 23,000 to 60,000 the butt plate 4 of the digits and after 60,000 they have only 3 digits. After 150,000 the use of assemble numbers started instead of serial numbers. Before 16,000 they had a small font assemble number on the side of the tang forward of the serial number and one each side plate and the top part of the frame under the left side plate. Butt plates were of the crescent type below 100,000 for rifles and carbines. From 102,000 to 160,000 carbines mostly had the carbine style. After 160,000 the carbines went to the steel carbine butt plate.
Forearms on 1st models are the same width as the receiver. 1st and 2nd model carbine have a forends 1/2″ shorter. Below 15,000 the frame and forearm wood were the same width (flat side) and after the receiver was flared out. The forearm caps are brass on rifles up to 135,000.
All 1st and early 2nd models do not have a 1/2 cock on the hammer. The hammer knurling has a boarder after 165,000. Levers have a smaller loop before 100,000 and mixed to 120,000. The loading gate on the early guns below 15,000 was flat. Bolts below 35,000 do not have a oil slot on the extractor. From 35,000 to 43,000 there is a mix of bolts with slots and without and the slot will be a straight cut across the bolt up to 128,000. After 128,000 the slot was changed to a oval milled on the top. The front top opening of the receiver on the the first 102,000 is straight and after that there was a notch added.
The magazine cap is threaded into the tube until 155,000. Below 102,000 the chamber is recessed for the rim of the shell. The caliber was marked on the barrel on some starting around 156,000 and by 166,000 they all were. You can have 5 or 6 land rifling to 70,000 then 5 land to 154,000 then it went to 6 land to the end. The rear barrel sight on a carbine is marked 3 & 5 up to 155,000. The front sight on a carbine is part of the front barrel band until 152,000.
Between 167,000 and 169,000 one thousand C.F. guns were sent to Brazil.

Bob

WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Avatar
Wisconsin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4317
Member Since:
May 2, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
March 27, 2024 - 10:24 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

The standard front sight for a rifle would of been the same as the Sporting Front sight like the 73, 76 and other early levers had. Carbine had either a front sight as part of the front barrel band on early guns or a square type of post permanently attached to the barrel on later ones.

Early 66’s had the Henry marked barrels which are worth more and after a short time they put the Winchester barrel address on them.

The majority of 66’s were rim fire but some were converted to center fire.

As to what will ruin a guns value is any alteration from original condition. Refinished or polished steel, extra holes and the receiver polished to make it shinny is the biggest issue with gun metal frame guns. They should have a butterscotch pattern to the metal, Light and dark pattern to the finish. If the corners of the receiver are rounded more than normal wear is another sign of it been polished. Here is a 73 carrier with a nice butterscotch look.

Bob

 

21-front.jpgImage Enlarger2024-03-27_171434.jpgImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
WACA Life Member---
NRA Life Member----
Cody Firearms member since 1991
Researching the Winchester 1873's

73_86cutaway.jpg

Email: [email protected]

Avatar
Port Orchard, WA
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 15
Member Since:
March 20, 2024
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
March 28, 2024 - 4:04 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

1873man said
The rifle butt plates and carbines had are different except the early carbines used a rifle butt plate.

Here is a check list of features on the 66 so you can determine is the gun is all from the same era. This came from a collector who uses this to double check a gun before buying. He compiled it from several books and personal experience. Some number ranges will over lap or have gaps since it was compiled from different sources. I give no guarantee to the accuracy of any information.

Serial numbers begin at 12,000. 1st models 12,000 to 19,000 – 2nd models 19,000 to 25,000 – 3rd models 25,000 to 149,000 and 4th model 149,000 to 170,000 these numbers are approximate. 1st models have a extra wood screw on the top tang behind the hammer. The serial number is on the top of the stock & left side of the lower tang. From 19,000 to 139,000 the serial number is on the bottom of the tang behind the trigger and after that the serial number is at the rear of the tang in a script style. Below serial number 20,000 the butt plate has the complete serial number on it usually. 23,000 to 60,000 the butt plate 4 of the digits and after 60,000 they have only 3 digits. After 150,000 the use of assemble numbers started instead of serial numbers. Before 16,000 they had a small font assemble number on the side of the tang forward of the serial number and one each side plate and the top part of the frame under the left side plate. Butt plates were of the crescent type below 100,000 for rifles and carbines. From 102,000 to 160,000 carbines mostly had the carbine style. After 160,000 the carbines went to the steel carbine butt plate.

Forearms on 1st models are the same width as the receiver. 1st and 2nd model carbine have a forends 1/2″ shorter. Below 15,000 the frame and forearm wood were the same width (flat side) and after the receiver was flared out. The forearm caps are brass on rifles up to 135,000.

All 1st and early 2nd models do not have a 1/2 cock on the hammer. The hammer knurling has a boarder after 165,000. Levers have a smaller loop before 100,000 and mixed to 120,000. The loading gate on the early guns below 15,000 was flat. Bolts below 35,000 do not have a oil slot on the extractor. From 35,000 to 43,000 there is a mix of bolts with slots and without and the slot will be a straight cut across the bolt up to 128,000. After 128,000 the slot was changed to a oval milled on the top. The front top opening of the receiver on the the first 102,000 is straight and after that there was a notch added.

The magazine cap is threaded into the tube until 155,000. Below 102,000 the chamber is recessed for the rim of the shell. The caliber was marked on the barrel on some starting around 156,000 and by 166,000 they all were. You can have 5 or 6 land rifling to 70,000 then 5 land to 154,000 then it went to 6 land to the end. The rear barrel sight on a carbine is marked 3 & 5 up to 155,000. The front sight on a carbine is part of the front barrel band until 152,000.

Between 167,000 and 169,000 one thousand C.F. guns were sent to Brazil.

Bob

  

WOW Bob, that’s a lot of information, but a great read. Thanks, this i have to print out. Thanks

Do you have any experiences or memories of the old Winchester Gun Museum in New Haven?

If you do, let’s chat

20240318_185829-2.jpeg

Avatar
Port Orchard, WA
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 15
Member Since:
March 20, 2024
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
March 28, 2024 - 4:04 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

1873man said
The standard front sight for a rifle would of been the same as the Sporting Front sight like the 73, 76 and other early levers had. Carbine had either a front sight as part of the front barrel band on early guns or a square type of post permanently attached to the barrel on later ones.

Early 66’s had the Henry marked barrels which are worth more and after a short time they put the Winchester barrel address on them.

The majority of 66’s were rim fire but some were converted to center fire.

As to what will ruin a guns value is any alteration from original condition. Refinished or polished steel, extra holes and the receiver polished to make it shinny is the biggest issue with gun metal frame guns. They should have a butterscotch pattern to the metal, Light and dark pattern to the finish. If the corners of the receiver are rounded more than normal wear is another sign of it been polished. Here is a 73 carrier with a nice butterscotch look.

Bob

 

21-front.jpgImage Enlarger2024-03-27_171434.jpgImage Enlarger

  

Thanks again Cool

Do you have any experiences or memories of the old Winchester Gun Museum in New Haven?

If you do, let’s chat

20240318_185829-2.jpeg

Avatar
Port Orchard, WA
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 15
Member Since:
March 20, 2024
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
March 28, 2024 - 4:06 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I now know who I’m going to when I’m ready to purchase my 1873. Thanks 1873man 

Do you have any experiences or memories of the old Winchester Gun Museum in New Haven?

If you do, let’s chat

20240318_185829-2.jpeg

Avatar
North D/FW
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 242
Member Since:
April 30, 2023
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
7
March 28, 2024 - 7:43 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Cilrah said
I now know who I’m going to when I’m ready to purchase my 1873. Thanks 1873man 

  

True to his screen name!

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6354
TXGunNut: 5015
Chuck: 4596
1873man: 4317
steve004: 4244
Big Larry: 2338
twobit: 2293
mrcvs: 1723
TR: 1722
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12736
Posts: 110926

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1758
Members: 8842
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation