Log In
Members
Home
Add Reply
Add Topic
Offline
I’m offering for sale my 1873 Model “Smoothbore” in 32-20 caliber to all interested collectors. This most rare firearm was researched and listed in Jim Gordens 2 volume set on the Model 1873 Winchester. It is 1 of 2 known to be listed in the Winchester Ledger Books. This Smoothbore DOES LETTER. The Winchester Letter to go to the Buyer of this advanced collectable Winchester ’73. If interested contact me for price at [email protected]. Member of WACA since 1989, #2576
Online
A smooth bore gun is rare but not as much as you think. Gordons book lists 8 documented smooth bores that are in his survey of 3800 guns alone so there are going to be many more if the entire ledgers is surveyed.
What condition is the gun?
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man;
You are mostly correct, however I’ve two questions for you. 1) How many 1873 Smoothbores do you own? 2) Most of the known Smoothbore rifles are in large calibers (44-40, 38-40) finding two Smoothbores in 32-20 out of 3800 1873’s that J. Gorden researched makes those SMALL BORES less than 1%. I’d say that less than 1% would be considered RARE, wouldn’t you? So if there were 730,000, or there about 1873 model Winchesters manufactured, that would mean less than 730 were small bore Smoothbore 1873’s, (probably much less than that number manufactured) of which between 5 to 10% might have survived, actually probably less than 5 of these “small bore” Smoothbores still exist. I’d once again say that’s a rare 1873, rarer at least than even the “1 of 1000’s” that always seem to be popping up like mushrooms after a spring rain.
I owned the other 32-20 Smoothbore that lettered several years ago and the gentlemen at Cody did a friendly search of 2-3,000 numbers higher and lower of my serial number and didn’t find another one. That being said it is still a pretty small sample of the 73’s. They are pretty scarce but not always desirable when the checkbook comes out I found when I went to sell mine. I think it brought $7,500 or $8,000 at auction.
Casey
Casey;
That’s around the number I was offered when last I thought about selling my 32-20 Smoothbore. That was about 10 years ago in a different market than exists today. Personally if I told you what I paid for it and how it was aquired by me, it would certainly give you a big laugh. Suffice it to say my outlay in cash was much, much less than that. I bought it at a Garage Sale in New Haven, Connecticut from a family getting rid of old “JUNK”. It was on display at the WACA show in Portland, Maine the year WACA featured the 1873. As far as being desireable when the “Checkbook” has to come out, this is almost always the case. When someone has to pay for it, it’s worth “Nothing”, but when they sell the same item, it’s worth a “Kings Ransom”. Some people never seem to realize that “for nothing, you get nothing”. In any case I’m now getting OLD, and the time has come to let it move on. Apache.
Apache, awesome story on the yard sale find. I love hearing about people lucking out. Hope you do well with it. \
Casey
Man I wish I had luck like that! My lucky find was a 73 16″ short rifle…which the pocket book is still screaming about!
Good luck with the sale
apache said
1873man;
You are mostly correct, however I’ve two questions for you. 1) How many 1873 Smoothbores do you own? 2) Most of the known Smoothbore rifles are in large calibers (44-40, 38-40) finding two Smoothbores in 32-20 out of 3800 1873’s that J. Gorden researched makes those SMALL BORES less than 1%. I’d say that less than 1% would be considered RARE, wouldn’t you? So if there were 730,000, or there about 1873 model Winchesters manufactured, that would mean less than 730 were small bore Smoothbore 1873’s, (probably much less than that number manufactured) of which between 5 to 10% might have survived, actually probably less than 5 of these “small bore” Smoothbores still exist. I’d once again say that’s a rare 1873, rarer at least than even the “1 of 1000’s” that always seem to be popping up like mushrooms after a spring rain.
730,000 = 100%
73,000 = 10%
7,300 = 1%
730 = .1%
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Casey;
Do you know who lived in New Haven, Ct. around the time my 1873 Smoothbore was manufactured? Doc Carver did. I never saw any of his personal Winchester SB’s. I wish I did though, as this Smoothbore of mine had an unusual drop put into the bottom tang, making it look like it was made for a “Semi-Pistol Grip” stock. The tang looks like the normal and not a pistol grip tang, but is angled down to accept a butt stock with a more than normal drop. The Tang Screw is longer than normal and the tang is tapped at a different angle than the “normal” bottom tang screw that goes from the upper tang, through the stock, and then into the bottom tang. This ’73 had to have been ordered with these “Special” features from Winchester at the time of its manufacture I would imagine. Any thoughts on this? Have you ever heard of this being done before? Anybody out there in Never, Never Land know if Carver or anyone else had their “Smoothbores” built with this unusual drop in the butt stock?
Apache (Larry N.)
apache said
It is 1 of 2 known to be listed in the Winchester Ledger Books.
Larry,
I would tend to agree with your original statement if you would of said “1 of 2 known to have survived” but not to say there are only 2 in the ledger since nobody has ever gone through the entire 73 ledgers. Gordon surveyed guns at the shows, guns that he owned or lists of guns that collectors sent him so his sample is comparatively small to what is probable out there. To answer your question, I don’t have a smooth bore. Its not that I couldn’t find one for sale, They never turned me on unless I was to find one in real nice condition. Thats why I asked about its condition.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
apache said
Casey;
Do you know who lived in New Haven, Ct. around the time my 1873 Smoothbore was manufactured? Doc Carver did. I never saw any of his personal Winchester SB’s. I wish I did though, as this Smoothbore of mine had an unusual drop put into the bottom tang, making it look like it was made for a “Semi-Pistol Grip” stock. The tang looks like the normal and not a pistol grip tang, but is angled down to accept a butt stock with a more than normal drop. The Tang Screw is longer than normal and the tang is tapped at a different angle than the “normal” bottom tang screw that goes from the upper tang, through the stock, and then into the bottom tang. This ’73 had to have been ordered with these “Special” features from Winchester at the time of its manufacture I would imagine. Any thoughts on this? Have you ever heard of this being done before? Anybody out there in Never, Never Land know if Carver or anyone else had their “Smoothbores” built with this unusual drop in the butt stock?
Apache (Larry N.)
Good Evening from The Twilight Zone,,,
,
It’s 10:01 pm, 13 May 2015. It was kinda cool out today, a high of 63 degrees and windy, here in the Zone. Temperature dropped about 23 degrees from yesterday.
I regards to the above post in this Thread, I found the referenced W. F. “Doc” Carver, a very interesting Fellow. That is why this post is so late coming from The Twilight Zone (as it is past my bedtime), but I had to Research the Man and wright about a answer to Apache’s Question, in my own opinion.
As an avid Trap Shooter Back in the Day, I enjoyed the sport and was relatively good at it but nowhere as good as Doc Carver was. I could not find a article as to the guns he used in my short quest to find information out about him. But I would imagine that he used a Smooth Bore Winchester Model 1873. As many Exhibition Shooters used Smooth Bore Rifles, Back in the Day doing Exhibition Shooting before a large crowd, especially shooting Glass Balls. I would think a Winchester in Caliber 32-20 would be the right size to accomplish this feat with, before an audience in an open arena. If I remember right Annie Oakley used a Winchester Model 1892 Rifle with a Smooth Bore in 32-20 Caliber for Her Exhibition Shooting. Anyway whatever Doc used he was a Accomplished Marksman and has the Documentation to Prove it.
Anyway Apache, here is a photo I found while doing my short research about Doc Carver, I do believe that he is holding a Winchester Model 1873, as can be seen by the side plate and I would imagine that the ovals fore and aft are engravings or inscriptions on the frame. Also take a look at the Butt Stock Configuration, I kinda perceive this to be somewhat, of what you have explained your Model 1873 Winchester Configuration to be.
It’s 10:41 pm time for a smoke break,,,,
,, I’m back it’s 10:52 pm, it’s getting really cool outside, it might go down to 42 degrees tonight.
As for your Second Question, they might not be Smooth Bore Winchester Rifles. But here are a few examples of Custom Winchester Rifles that had, Made to Order Butt Stocks. If the other two don’t show up maybe they will post a picture of them if they read this Thread and Post.
Another one of a kind cast-off Winchester
As the Old Saying Goes, If You Had The Money Honey, Winchester Had The Time, to Produce your Special Order Rifle just the way you wanted it.
In ending, just a few Disclaimers:
#1 – I hope I didn’t derail your Thread,
#2 – I am going to do more research about Doc Carver as I find Him Very Intriguing,
#3 – I didn’t research the Bible tonight, but I think there are a few examples of other Winchesters that have Special Order Butt Stocks,
So from The Twilight Zone, it’s 11:00 pm 13 May 2015. Time to hit the Rack as 4:00 am will be here soon.
Enjoy your Evening and the Day to Come…….
PS: I went outside to have my last smoke before retiring to bed and I got to thinking. Your Winchester Model 1873 must have been made in 1877-1878 ? You should be able to get a Factory Letter stating as to the Configuration it was Produced in.
"I Would Have Rather Lived Through The Industrial Revaluation"
"Instead of The Space Age"
From
The Twilight Zone
I found the auction listing for the gun. I bought it from Ray House several years before in Tulsa.
I have the First model Marbles Game-Getter in 44-40 shot. I took it to the skeet range and found it very weak. The #1 station low house could be broken OK when close , (this was at a time when I was shooting 410 shotgun well and it was MUCH more powerful than the 44 ) So I cant imagine using anything less like 32-20. Not really a situation where a fantastic shot could get amazing breaks ? there is just so little tiny shot to work with, … unless they were somehow choked extremely tight with the most hot-rodded load possible . and target very close ?? even still ?
Phil
Hokie, Bert H and 1873 Man;
Thank you for your responces. Bert, thanks for the breakdown in the numbers. I sure would like to know just how many “Smoothbore” 1873 Winchesters, be they large caliber or the smaller variety have survived. I would imagine not that many, as I think they were used as tools of the “Show Trade” and discarded afterward for the most part.
Hokie, thanks for the interesting information you’ve given me. I never knew that A.O. used a 32-20 in her shows. I did see some old photos of Carver posed with a Winchester 1873 that from the actual photo looked like it might possibly be a smallbore 1873 (smaller diameter magazine tube than the 44-40’s or 38-40’s) with a sort of “semi-pistol grip”. If you come up with any interesting information on the subject and care to share it with all of us at WACA, I for one would be most interested in your findings. I have the “Factory Letter”, and other than describing it as a “Smoothbore”, date received, shipping date, etc. it gives very little other info on it. 1873 Man; Do you think I should perhaps change the script in my “For Sale” ad to read something like, “For Sale, A MOST COMMON 1873 Smoothbore Firearm, 1 of 760,000 1873’s manufactured by the Winchester Repeating Firearms Company, price CHEAP!! ? Thanks again Guys, Apache.
1 Guest(s)
