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Winchester 22K Rear Sight WindowSlide/Insert/Leaf
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VA
Posts: 46
December 10, 2021 - 4:25 am

1sp_QuotePost

Greetings.

Not sure what to call it, but I’m looking for a 22K rear sight leaf. I’ve read there are two versions. I think I need the flatter, taller version for an early 1954 Featherweight Low Comb stock. I bought a complete 22G but the leaf doesn’t fit. Prefer a real 22K leaf in excellent to very good condition. Have been keeping an eye on places where a leaf can be purchased, but only need the leaf.

Thanks for looking.

Ted

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Posts: 4506
December 10, 2021 - 6:24 pm

2sp_QuotePost

You don’t say what model gun this is for.  I don’t know what a 1954 featherweight is?  If this is a Model 54 it could be a #22 flattop or a #26 full buckhorn. The 22K is a semi buckhorn for models 92 and 94 carbines, model 64 with a 20″ barrel and the Model 71.  See pages 287 and 317 of Stoebel’s book.

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Winchester, VA
Posts: 949
December 10, 2021 - 11:21 pm

3sp_QuotePost

Hi mfivefour-

Are we talking about a LC (NRA style) stocked pre-64 M70 FWT?  If so, what is the chambering and S/N?  Matters insofar as the correct sight is concerned…

FWIW… there’s a long (and boring) story as it pertains to the “22K” designation (pre-war versus post-war) that I’m sure to get pushback even if I support my argument with factory blueprints (seewin’s – not mine).  So let’s not go there YET…

Are any of these what you’re looking for?

Win-22GK-1.jpegImage EnlargerWin-22GK-2.jpegImage EnlargerWin-22GK-1.jpgImage EnlargerWin-22GK-2.jpgImage Enlarger

The “22K” that’s correct for a LC M70 FWT (1954-1957) is the third from left in the first pic.  Taller fixed leaf and “flat top” slide that gave an extra 0.050″ height compare to the predecessors. 

I might (???) have a spare tall 22K sight (have to look – had a couple) if that’s what you need…  I have no loose inserts…

Happy Holidays!!!

Lou

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WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

WACA-Signauture-3.jpg

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VA
Posts: 46
December 11, 2021 - 2:16 am

4sp_QuotePost

Yes, it is a 1954 Model 70 FW in .308 with LC stock. S/N puts it within the first 1000 made that year.

B7C58CA6-E782-4B37-B704-37D7FCBA1CF7.jpegImage EnlargerD51AB1ED-86F8-4094-AD01-F34828BBC956.jpegImage Enlarger4A42F5CE-0CB9-4540-8F88-590C115182BE.jpegImage Enlarger79DB080B-2526-447F-BB00-19FD9967895E.jpegImage EnlargerB74FDDB8-DCD5-45BF-BC57-D7CC825ADD36.jpegImage Enlarger

From left, first 4 pictures are of the rear sight on the .308 FW.

Center picture shows an attempt at installing a 22G leaf.

Far right picture shows a 22K rear sight on a .358 FW.

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Winchester, VA
Posts: 949
December 11, 2021 - 4:18 pm

5sp_QuotePost

Hi mfivefour-

Yup…  That’s the one.  What I call the “tall” version of the redesigned (post-war) 22K that is commonly found on M70 low comb FWTs in roughly the 1954-57 period.  Same sight as used on the 358 WIN FWTs (which were only cataloged with LC stocks).

I checked, and I have two of those tall 22K sights lying around, both appearing to be factory NOS parts.  If you want I’ll send you one.  Just send me a PM with your mailing address.  Whether you use just the sheet metal slide or the whole sight is up to you.  It doesn’t look like you need the 3C elevator, which is good b/c neither of my sights has the elevator with it.

The topic of correct sights on M70 FWTs (and the contemporary standard rifles) can generate some “disagreement”.  The FWT style, with its lightweight barrel contour, silver brazed ramp, and no barrel boss, joined the product line-up in 1952, the same year that the MC stocks were introduced in the standard, SG and FWT styles.  Those two things (along with a desire to use the same height front sight on everything) caused Winchester to make changes to the sights supplied on both low comb and MC stocked M70s with both FWT and standard barrels.

I think the MC stock design was the driving factor, since the higher comb demanded a higher line of sight.  So Winchester raised the line of sight by 0.050″ front and rear on MC stocked rifles (FWT and standard).  The difference in muzzle diameter between the FWT and standard barrel contours was dealt with by using two different heights of the (also new) silver brazed front sight ramps and the same 0.360″ (previously 0.310″) tall version of the Win 103C was used for both.  

As for the barrel sights, on MC stocked FWTs they went with the taller Marbles 69 folding sight (similar to the later Lyman 16A).  But what about the LC stocked FWTs?  Initially (1952-53) the LC rifles also used the Marbles sight.  This is supported by the Winchester catalogs of the day (text and pictures), as well as the observational survey.  It only applies to 308 WIN FWTs, since that was the only chambering available at that time.  But Winchester, for some reason, liked the idea of a “sporting” style rear sight with LC stocks (maybe b/c of the longer sight radius?), and by 1954 started using the taller 22K version you show in your pictures. So that “sporting” sight is the most correct for 1954 and later LC FWTs, including the 308 WIN, 358 WIN, 270 WIN and 30-06 SPRG chamberings. Since some 1953 receivers would not have been assembled into rifles until 1954, it is not “wrong” for a LC FWT with a ’53 receiver to have this 22K sight.  Sometime later, around 1955, the Lyman 16A replaced the tall Marbles 69 on MC FWTs, and eventually (maybe around 1957) also replaced the tall 22K on LC FWTs.  It’s hard to pin this last date down since by then >90% of the FWTs being made seem to have been the MC version.

There is a similar (even more confusing) evolution of rear sights on rifles using the standard barrel contour…  That story is further confounded by the fact that standard grade rifles continued to use integral ramp barrels until they were depleted, but that’s another story… 

Just my take… Wink

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

WACA-Signauture-3.jpg

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VA
Posts: 46
December 12, 2021 - 3:44 am

6sp_QuotePost

Lou,

Thanks for the confirmation and you’re correct that a 3C elevator isn’t required. Think I sent you survey form for the .308, but will check and make sure.

Terminology Question: Below is an edited photo from the post above. Are the blue arrows pointing to the “scalllops”? Also, the red arrow points to a recessed area where the window slides in. Does this recessed area have a purpose?

IMG_8700.JPGImage Enlarger

Nothing against MC stocked FW’s, but really enjoy early LC FW’s (the .308 being my first).

I’ve read and captured the discussions on 22G vs. 22K. An excellent learning tool, especially with all of the in-depth details you and others provide.

You should write a book! 🙂

Communication inbound on your 22K “stash”.

Ted

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