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SOLD!, pending funds. 10-1-2024
Additional photos can be furnishd on request
$5,800 plus shipping and insurance. FFL or C&R FFL required.
Bright shiney bore. T/D is tight and no scars or scratches from being taken dowm. There is carry wear on the receiver. Some case colors showing on the butt, lever and hammer. Cody letter included.
Contact: Roger Baker P.M., or Cell/Text (408)836-1349
Say, Roger, an impressive piece at a reasonable price, from what I can read. [ I haven’t exactly seen the elephant or heard the owl, when it comes to the 1886.]
Was the crescent butt a special order feature? The few Extra Lights I’ve seen have had shotgun butts, either hard rubber or steel. If this one wasn’t shot a lot, I could guess why. The 10 pound Browning 86 I once owned had a rifle butt that pegged my fun meter pretty quick.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Bill,
He posted a picture of the letter. It lists rifle butt with the other features, rare gun. T/R
P.S. I like the looks of the rife butt. I have another 1886 Ex. Lt. that isn’t quite as nice this rifle that has the rifle butt, full magazine, sling, Lyman21, Winchester T/D case and the Cody Letter. Killed my first 300 lb. pig with it (back when I still huted). 
RDB
If I’d had the price, that ELW would be in my locker!
TR, I should have asked my question more carefully. I saw the letter and didn’t intend to question the originality of the rifle buttplate. What I meant to ask was whether a shotgun butt was “standard” for the ELW, requiring a special order for the rifle buttplate on the gun. I take it from your reply (that it’s a rare gun), to mean this was indeed a special order. I will say whoever ordered it was not intimidated by recoil.
What I think I’ve just learned is Cody letters do not disclose whether a particular feature was an sof; although perhaps the fact that a feature is mentioned in the letter is an indication?
Thanks,
Bill
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
I’m going to step out on a limb here and say the crescent,(rifle) butt was the standard and the ,(s.g.b.) is the extra feature. I say this based on , the rifle butt is not mentioned in the factory letter of ser#143714, making it standard order, and the shotgun butt is mentioned on ser#139158 making it a factory extra feature. Correct Me if I’m wrong.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Henry Mero said
I’m going to step out on a limb here and say the crescent,(rifle) butt was the standard and the ,(s.g.b.) is the extra feature. I say this based on , the rifle butt is not mentioned in the factory letter of ser#143714, making it standard order, and the shotgun butt is mentioned on ser#139158 making it a factory extra feature. Correct Me if I’m wrong.
Look again, the letter for serial number 143714 clearly states “Rifle butt”. The rifle butt was much more common than the shotgun butt on these later ELW rifles.
Online
A “Rifle” butt was not ever standard on the Model 1886 Extra Light Weight rifles. While the factory ledger entry often includes “Shotgun butt, Rubber” for an ELW, it was the standard feature (item) for that specific variation.
The people who entered the information into the warehouse ledger records were not always consistent in how (or what) they wrote in the records. Generally speaking, if a feature was standard, it was omitted from the ledger records. However, this was not always the case.
The attached picture is a scanned copy of the Winchester October 1905 catalog for the Model 1886 Extra Light Weight rifle, listing all of the standard features. Aby feature not included in the catalog was a “special” order feature… including a Rifle butt.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
mrcvs said
Henry Mero said
I’m going to step out on a limb here and say the crescent,(rifle) butt was the standard and the ,(s.g.b.) is the extra feature. I say this based on , the rifle butt is not mentioned in the factory letter of ser#143714, making it standard order, and the shotgun butt is mentioned on ser#139158 making it a factory extra feature. Correct Me if I’m wrong.
Look again, the letter for serial number 143714 clearly states “Rifle butt”. The rifle butt was much more common than the shotgun butt on these later ELW rifles.
Ian,
Again, you have incorrectly assumed something that is not true. A rifle butt was never “more common” on any ELW rifle. The research survey that Mark & I have been compiling for the past many years positively verifies that the hard rubber shotgun butt was by a very large margin the most common for the ELW rifles. Of the total (129) late production ELW rifles that we have documented to this point, just (4) of them have a crescent (rifle) butt.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I pulled my last post. The trap on an 86 is not standard. Therefor the gun letters as is. Bert will know what is rare. T/R
OK; I did say I was stepping out on a limb, and I think I cut it off behind Me . I didn’t see the “Rifle Butt” notation in the letter for #143714. Thank You.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
mrcvs said
Henry Mero said
I’m going to step out on a limb here and say the crescent,(rifle) butt was the standard and the ,(s.g.b.) is the extra feature. I say this based on , the rifle butt is not mentioned in the factory letter of ser#143714, making it standard order, and the shotgun butt is mentioned on ser#139158 making it a factory extra feature. Correct Me if I’m wrong.
Look again, the letter for serial number 143714 clearly states “Rifle butt”. The rifle butt was much more common than the shotgun butt on these later ELW rifles.
I got it backwards! I meant the shotgun butt was much more common than the rifle butt!
Bert H. said
mrcvs said
Henry Mero said
I’m going to step out on a limb here and say the crescent,(rifle) butt was the standard and the ,(s.g.b.) is the extra feature. I say this based on , the rifle butt is not mentioned in the factory letter of ser#143714, making it standard order, and the shotgun butt is mentioned on ser#139158 making it a factory extra feature. Correct Me if I’m wrong.
Look again, the letter for serial number 143714 clearly states “Rifle butt”. The rifle butt was much more common than the shotgun butt on these later ELW rifles.
Ian,
Again, you have incorrectly assumed something that is not true. A rifle butt was never “more common” on any ELW rifle. The research survey that Mark & I have been compiling for the past many years positively verifies that the hard rubber shotgun butt was by a very large margin the most common for the ELW rifles. Of the total (129) late production ELW rifles that we have documented to this point, just (4) of them have a crescent (rifle) butt.
Bert
Yes, I mistyped, somehow. You have a ratio of 4 out of 129, which is a ratio of 1:32.25. My guess is it was actually lower, maybe 1:50, but that’s a guess.
I should also state that the letter for serial no 143714 does state “extra light”. Without that designation in the letter, I would not otherwise classify this rifle as extra light weight as, by definition, isn’t extra light weight meant to be as light as possible and a steel butt plate would weigh more than a hard rubber shotgun butt?
mrcvs said
Bert H. said
mrcvs said
Henry Mero said
I’m going to step out on a limb here and say the crescent,(rifle) butt was the standard and the ,(s.g.b.) is the extra feature. I say this based on , the rifle butt is not mentioned in the factory letter of ser#143714, making it standard order, and the shotgun butt is mentioned on ser#139158 making it a factory extra feature. Correct Me if I’m wrong.
Look again, the letter for serial number 143714 clearly states “Rifle butt”. The rifle butt was much more common than the shotgun butt on these later ELW rifles.
Ian,
Again, you have incorrectly assumed something that is not true. A rifle butt was never “more common” on any ELW rifle. The research survey that Mark & I have been compiling for the past many years positively verifies that the hard rubber shotgun butt was by a very large margin the most common for the ELW rifles. Of the total (129) late production ELW rifles that we have documented to this point, just (4) of them have a crescent (rifle) butt.
Bert
Yes, I mistyped, somehow. You have a ratio of 4 out of 129, which is a ratio of 1:32.25. My guess is it was actually lower, maybe 1:50, but that’s a guess.
In addition to the “late production” survey, I have also documented all of the post-1899 production Model 1886s that I have found (beginning with serial number 120796). Thus far, I have documented a total of 1,071 Model 1886s in the 120796 – 145999 serial range (or 4.25% of the total 25,205 in that s/n range). In that s/n range, I have documented (196) ELW rifles, of which (9) have a crescent (rifle) butt. That equates to 4.6%.
When I add the late production numbers (s/n range 146000 – 159999) with the post-1899 numbers (120796 – 145999), the total number of ELW rifles I have documented is (325). The total number of ELWs with a crescent (rifle) butt is just (13), or in statistical terms, exactly 4%. Not exactly rare, but certainly “uncommon”.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
mrcvs said
I should also state that the letter for serial no 143714 does state “extra light”. Without that designation in the letter, I would not otherwise classify this rifle as extra light weight as, by definition, isn’t extra light weight meant to be as light as possible and a steel butt plate would weigh more than a hard rubber shotgun butt?
The barrel length and caliber are the more defining characteristics of an ELW rifle… 22-inch and 45-70.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
mrcvs said
Bert H. said
mrcvs said
Henry Mero said
I’m going to step out on a limb here and say the crescent,(rifle) butt was the standard and the ,(s.g.b.) is the extra feature. I say this based on , the rifle butt is not mentioned in the factory letter of ser#143714, making it standard order, and the shotgun butt is mentioned on ser#139158 making it a factory extra feature. Correct Me if I’m wrong.
Look again, the letter for serial number 143714 clearly states “Rifle butt”. The rifle butt was much more common than the shotgun butt on these later ELW rifles.
Ian,
Again, you have incorrectly assumed something that is not true. A rifle butt was never “more common” on any ELW rifle. The research survey that Mark & I have been compiling for the past many years positively verifies that the hard rubber shotgun butt was by a very large margin the most common for the ELW rifles. Of the total (129) late production ELW rifles that we have documented to this point, just (4) of them have a crescent (rifle) butt.
Bert
Yes, I mistyped, somehow. You have a ratio of 4 out of 129, which is a ratio of 1:32.25. My guess is it was actually lower, maybe 1:50, but that’s a guess.
In addition to the “late production” survey, I have also documented all of the post-1899 production Model 1886s that I have found (beginning with serial number 120796). Thus far, I have documented a total of 1,071 Model 1886s in the 120796 – 145999 serial range (or 4.25% of the total 25,205 in that s/n range). In that s/n range, I have documented (196) ELW rifles, of which (9) have a crescent (rifle) butt. That equates to 4.6%.
When I add the late production numbers (s/n range 146000 – 159999) with the post-1899 numbers (120796 – 145999), the total number of ELW rifles I have documented is (325). The total number of ELWs with a crescent (rifle) butt is just (13), or in statistical terms, exactly 4%. Not exactly rare, but certainly “uncommon”.
Bert
So 1 out of 25. Your data is much more scientific than my observations. It seems you see a LOT of ELW shotgun butt rifles before you come across an ELW rifle with a crescent buttplate, but I overestimated what a LOT is. Thank you for quantifying this, Bert.
Bert H. said
mrcvs said
I should also state that the letter for serial no 143714 does state “extra light”. Without that designation in the letter, I would not otherwise classify this rifle as extra light weight as, by definition, isn’t extra light weight meant to be as light as possible and a steel butt plate would weigh more than a hard rubber shotgun butt?
The barrel length and caliber are the more defining characteristics of an ELW rifle… 22-inch and 45-70.
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