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1897
November 28, 2020
5:23 pm
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NH
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Hi all,

I'm interested in aquiring an original, early, fairly good condition 1897 riot gun with ordenence stamps (and character). Please PM me if you or someone you know are considering selling. I'd also consider a trench gun but think I prefer the look of the riot.

I'm in no rush and will update this post when I'm no longer looking 

Thank you!

Brian 

November 28, 2020
10:55 pm
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M

Brian said
Hi all,

I'm interested in aquiring an original, early, fairly good condition 1897 riot gun with ordenence stamps (and character). Please PM me if you or someone you know are considering selling. I'd also consider a trench gun but think I prefer the look of the riot.

I'm in no rush and will update this post when I'm no longer looking 

Thank you!

Brian   

Martially marked riot M97's are quite scarce. Trenchguns can be found, but are usually pieces of parts. If this is your first, you are entering a dark realm of a collecting field. 100% correct US marked Riots or Trenchguns are extremely scarce. Get Canfields books on shotguns, and ask a lot of questions. Bert is a pretty good source of good info.  Big Larry

December 13, 2020
1:39 pm
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NH
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Thank you for the info Big Larry. Book arrived yesterday. I'll be checking it out soon. Ultimately I'm looking for a good condition martially marked, shooter that falls within the right serial number ranges, and falls in line with my budget. a gun with more potential history (older) would he worth more to me. But I'm open to both wars.

I've been following them on Proxybid and Invaluable auctions online for about a year now and the few that I've seen appear to be in what I'd call average condition, a couple were very nice above average that I wish I had bid on. Hammer price appears to have gone up recently. Factoring in the extra 20% also makes it difficult to manage.

December 13, 2020
6:38 pm
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Brian I have seen 2 WWII trench guns sell for about $2,200 in the last year.  Both of these were original with moderate wear.  Keep away from the big auction houses or you will bay 3 to 4 times that figure.  A nice riot gun can be bought for less than $1,000 but it won't be martially marked.

December 13, 2020
9:14 pm
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Brian, are you looking for a WWI Model 1897 or a WWII Model 97 riot gun?  I've been collecting 1897s and 97s for quite some time and can't say that I have ever seen more than a few martially marked WWI 1897 riot guns.  And I wouldn't bet my life on them being the real deal.  Almost all, if not all, of the WWI 1897 riots were not martially marked.

December 14, 2020
1:31 pm
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NH
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Chuck said
Brian I have seen 2 WWII trench guns sell for about $2,200 in the last year.  Both of these were original with moderate wear.  Keep away from the big auction houses or you will bay 3 to 4 times that figure.  A nice riot gun can be bought for less than $1,000 but it won't be martially marked.  

Hi Chuck,

That’s the range I’ve been seeing too up until  a couple rock island sales recently which went for quite a bit more and I think at least one of them were re-blued.  The few purchases I’ve made over the last couple years and the majority of my shopping focus stays w/ Amoskeag Auctions simply because of our proximity to each other and the ease of picking it up after the hammer goes down. Like I said I also use proxy bid and I’ve gotten a couple nice guns thru there. So I’m not sure if it’s the (lack of) time I put into the research or the actual supply but I don’t see many that appear both original and in good condition out there very often.

That’s why I’m posting this note here on the chance someone is thinking of selling. This is probably the best source out there for the purchase of a nice honest, original Winchester gun.

Tom D said
Brian, are you looking for a WWI Model 1897 or a WWII Model 97 riot gun?  I've been collecting 1897s and 97s for quite some time and can't say that I have ever seen more than a few martially marked WWI 1897 riot guns.  And I wouldn't bet my life on them being the real deal.  Almost all, if not all, of the WWI 1897 riots were not martially marked.  

Hi Tom, 

I’m looking for an original riot or trench gun that’s not beat up or messed with. I agree with the average prices Chuck’s mentioned above and I have a hard time with Rock Islands recent hammer prices. I guess the proper term I should be using is ‘period correct’. The more original, period correct bells and whistles the better. I wasn’t aware early guns were not all martial marked until I read it in the book Big Larry suggested I pick up, which i read yesterday and I’m sure I have a lot more to learn.  I may not buy the 1st one I see but I’m open to anything pre 1945. I like the idea of an older gun having more history but i also like the take down factor of the newer model.  Ultimately a photo of the gun and affordability would be what makes the sale. 

Thank You Both for helping me with this,

Brian

April 6, 2021
11:51 pm
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NH
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I was able to find this 1920 commercial riot gun 070B78F2-6C6D-468D-9B48-194E98ED65A3.jpegImage EnlargerC138E428-7C44-4C11-B753-50A7C8D49785.jpegImage Enlargerat one of the big auction houses. Chuck was right and the cost did exceed the estimate he mentioned, but happily not 3 or 4 times the estimate. It's a, hopefully accurate model 97, CYL marked barrel with no military markings anywhere and a hard rubber butt plate.

What size 2 3/4" loads do you recommend I shoot  with this? 

Thank you,

15EF6839-BEE7-46E3-92C1-C30F961C74DA-1.jpegImage EnlargerBF20543B-B41F-4394-A780-E249BDA24424.jpegImage Enlarger7ECAAFA1-4980-4C0D-BFC8-89A460D12049.jpegImage Enlarger67841570-6E75-47F9-BE7D-41E66A52BC3B.jpegImage Enlarger58B89C12-5828-4461-8583-653B11176CB8.jpegImage EnlargerC6801011-4AF6-4138-9768-F21F4901B2C7.jpegImage Enlarger0E97CBDC-3E7A-4351-9DEC-9D058DB5DD7E.jpegImage Enlarger

April 7, 2021
1:04 am
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$2,000 all correct Trenchguns? That'll be the day. Big Larry

April 7, 2021
3:05 am
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Big Larry said
$2,000 all correct Trenchguns? That'll be the day. Big Larry  

Never saw one that cheap but I paid $2900 otd for my WWI.  Like I said I saw one hammer for $2100 and another for $2500. These were real umolested with moderate wear. Mine is a little nicer.Win-1897-Trench-Gun.JPGImage Enlarger

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April 7, 2021
4:12 am
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Brian,

Your Model 97 Riot gun was designed to shoot 00 Buck Shot loads.  That stated, it will shoot slugs, and any other size Buck Shot loads perfectly fine.  My preferred load (what I keep in my Model 1897 Riot Gun) is No. 4 Tactical Buck (Police loads).

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
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April 7, 2021
11:24 am
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NH
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March 25, 2019
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Thanks Bert. I was wondering if it would take slugs. That's a plus

April 7, 2021
4:01 pm
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Chuck said

Never saw one that cheap but I paid $2900 otd for my WWI.  Like I said I saw one hammer for $2100 and another for $2500. These were real umolested with moderate wear. Mine is a little nicer.Win-1897-Trench-Gun.JPGImage Enlarger  

A few years back, I had the nicest M1897 US marked Trenchgun anyone had ever seen. 99%, unused. I sold it on Gun Broker for $13,500.

Is yours US marked? US marked M1897's are very hard to find in any condition. I currently have a M97 Trenchgun from 1943 that is near mint. Friend wanted to give it to me, but I paid him $2,900, as that is what he had in it. If your M1897 is US marked, want to make a trade? Thanks, Big Larry

April 7, 2021
5:10 pm
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Big Larry said

A few years back, I had the nicest M1897 US marked Trenchgun anyone had ever seen. 99%, unused. I sold it on Gun Broker for $13,500.

Is yours US marked? US marked M1897's are very hard to find in any condition. I currently have a M97 Trenchgun from 1943 that is near mint. Friend wanted to give it to me, but I paid him $2,900, as that is what he had in it. If your M1897 is US marked, want to make a trade? Thanks, Big Larry  

Larry, no it is not marked.  Before I bought it I posted here because at that time I thought all were marked.  I like the solid frames better than the take downs and would buy a nice WW II.  I don't want to sell or trade this one unless I could get a marked WW I.

I should have bought one of the ones I mentioned but I was bidding on a Colt 1900 2nd Army contract pistol and didn't have the money for both.

April 7, 2021
10:52 pm
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Chuck said

Big Larry said

A few years back, I had the nicest M1897 US marked Trenchgun anyone had ever seen. 99%, unused. I sold it on Gun Broker for $13,500.

Is yours US marked? US marked M1897's are very hard to find in any condition. I currently have a M97 Trenchgun from 1943 that is near mint. Friend wanted to give it to me, but I paid him $2,900, as that is what he had in it. If your M1897 is US marked, want to make a trade? Thanks, Big Larry  

Larry, no it is not marked.  Before I bought it I posted here because at that time I thought all were marked.  I like the solid frames better than the take downs and would buy a nice WW II.  I don't want to sell or trade this one unless I could get a marked WW I.

I should have bought one of the ones I mentioned but I was bidding on a Colt 1900 2nd Army contract pistol and didn't have the money for both.  

Original US marked WW1 M1897's are very scarce. I say original, as most I have seen were fakes. The US shotguns will bring double or triple the price of an unmarked specimen. I don't consider myself an expert on these any longer. I gave up my collection many years ago. I had all the Trenchguns except for the Rem. M10. I even had a super rare Ithaca M37 Trenchgun. I sold that one for over $17,000. Not into martial arms any longer, but I saved a few really nice ones. Just could not bring myself to sell them all.  Thanks, Big Larry

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