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Vernier sight on my 1885 Winchester.
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March 17, 2023 - 7:51 pm
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I am trying to get some more information on this vernier sight.  Under the base of the sight it is marked, MAR 30 86.  It has the exact same “knuckle” as the Wetmore sight except the top of the frame is flat and it has a elevation screw with the vernier markings on the side of the frame.  The eye cup loosens but will not detach.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US338898

I was told it is a Winchester sight!

Thanks,

Ed

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March 17, 2023 - 8:07 pm
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Called “Graduated Peep Sight” in the WRA cat.  As the pat states, Wetmore assigned his design to WRA.

Reading the description, I now know who to blame for ending production of the thick-base sights I particularly like.  Devising a means to avoid a need for what he called the “feather spring” in the thick base was the purpose that inspired his creation. 

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March 17, 2023 - 9:34 pm
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Thanks Clarence, did Winchester update this sight to add the elevator?

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March 17, 2023 - 9:44 pm
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Edward Kitner said
Thanks Clarence, did Winchester update this sight to add the elevator?

  

Do you mean the screw-adjustable sight called the Mid-Range Vernier?  Yes, I guess you could say it was an update, as it had previously been made with the thick base.  The Graduated was formerly made in a thick base version, too.

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March 18, 2023 - 12:15 am
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Thanks again, I’m learning!

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March 18, 2023 - 1:46 am
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Edward Kitner said
Thanks Clarence, did Winchester update this sight to add the elevator?

  

The Graduated Peep sight was not “upgraded” for the vertical elevation thumb screw.  The Mid Range Vernier tang sight with the vertical elevation screw was its own separate design.  Winchester used and installed both types on at least several thousand Single Shot rifles.

Bert

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March 18, 2023 - 2:57 am
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Bert H. said

The Graduated Peep sight was not “upgraded” for the vertical elevation thumb screw.  The Mid Range Vernier tang sight with the vertical elevation screw was its own separate design.  Winchester used and installed both types on at least several thousand Single Shot rifles.

But Witmer’s design replaced the thick base & “feather spring” of the earlier Mid-Range–that’s what Ed meant by “update,” & in that respect he is correct.

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March 18, 2023 - 3:07 am
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Edward Kitner said
Thanks Clarence, did Winchester update this sight to add the elevator?

  

No they did not.  The Graduated Peep sight remained in production in the same form for at least 25-years after the Mid Ranger Vernier sight was in use.

Bert

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March 18, 2023 - 4:25 am
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Bert H. said No they did not.  The Graduated Peep sight remained in production in the same form for at least 25-years after the Mid Ranger Vernier sight was in use. 

Of course–any WRA catalog of this period shows both sights side by side.  No one said that one superseded the other, as you seem to be implying.  Ed’s point (& mine) is that Witmer’s patent changed the subsequent design of both sights: thick bases were out, thin bases were in.   

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March 18, 2023 - 5:37 am
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clarence said

Bert H. said No they did not.  The Graduated Peep sight remained in production in the same form for at least 25-years after the Mid Ranger Vernier sight was in use. 

Of course–any WRA catalog of this period shows both sights side by side.  No one said that one superseded the other, as you seem to be implying.  Ed’s point (& mine) is that Witmer’s patent changed the subsequent design of both sights: thick bases were out, thin bases were in.   

  

Clarence… go reread Post #3 in this string.  It is very clear to me that Ed was not asking about the sight base that you seem to be so fixated about!  I accurately answered his question about the elevation mechanism.  The two sights used completely different mechanisms for elevating the eye-piece, which was what Ed asked about in Post #3.

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