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Lyman Super Target
February 14, 2017
2:53 pm
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 I have two Lyman super target scopes with the serial numbers 12487 (20x) & 18770 (12x). Can somebody give me the DOM for these? Also, a J.Unertl 20x (34825) thanks, Rick

February 14, 2017
3:48 pm
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lund2075 said
 I have two Lyman super target scopes with the serial numbers 12487 (20x) & 18770 (12x). Can somebody give me the DOM for these? Also, a J.Unertl 20x (34825) thanks, Rick  

Hello Rick,

I can’t find any SN/DOM reference material but you might find this interesting:  http:http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/Cast_Bullet/Lyman_Super_TargetSpot/Lyman_Super_%20TargetSpot.html/ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/Cast_Bullet/Lyman_Super_TargetSpot/Lyman_Super_%20TargetSpot.html

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

February 14, 2017
4:53 pm
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Some day, barring accidental loss, the Lyman records may again become available, as they were (for a fee) when Gil Parsons, who acquired them from Lyman, was alive.  At the present time, his elderly widow is simply sitting on them, declining either to sell them or make them available. 

Unertl’s records had already been “lost” well before the company closed its doors for good. They’d been “put in storage” at the time of their last change of location I was told in the early ’80s.  (Rather unbelievably for such a long established company, all their previous factory spaces had been leased, according to Elsie Unertl.)

February 14, 2017
5:12 pm
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There was a bit of discussion about Lyman scope serial numbers and their DOM not long ago on one of Louis Luttrell’s threads at the following link, http://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/question-about-model-70-van-orden-sniper-rifle/   that might be of interest to you should you want to estimate the year of manufacture for your Lyman scopes.

James

February 14, 2017
9:10 pm
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jwm94 said
There was a bit of discussion about Lyman scope serial numbers and their DOM not long ago on one of Louis Luttrell’s threads at the following link, http://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-rifles/question-about-model-70-van-orden-sniper-rifle/   that might be of interest to you should you want to estimate the year of manufacture for your Lyman scopes.

James  

Thanks for the help. I knew there was some previous discussion, but lost track of it. I guess I could have used the search engine to find it. Rick

February 19, 2017
10:56 pm
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Those where the main stay scopes of smallbore shooters for many years and some highpower shooters. I shot both most of my high school thru age 55 years. I sold all my match rifles and equipment. I sold a redfeild 3200 20x that I paid 325 for in 1975. I sold it for 600 to a shop who likes old target scopes. I believe the name is ironsights gun shop in the Midwest. They may have some information about them and or want to buy them if your selling them at some point.     

March 4, 2017
9:23 pm
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I have a Lyman Super Targetspot which I ordered a research letter for from Parson’s in 2006. The letter gives the following information: Super Targetspot, Serial #9741, 20 power, manufactured 6/27/1951, .0007 standard crosswire, date researched 9/20/06.

When I received the letter I was kind of surprised by the date of manufacture, I assumed the scope was produced a little earlier maybe 1946-48.

I have always wondered if Lyman manufactured each model of Targetspot with its own serial number sequence, or were they were all numbered in the same sequence?

I am also curious if anybody has an idea of the break point for pre-war vs. post-war serial numbers in the Targetspot series?

Anybody know?

 

Regards, Tom

March 4, 2017
10:16 pm
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tom in michigan said 

I have always wondered if Lyman manufactured each model of Targetspot with its own serial number sequence, or were they were all numbered in the same sequence?

I am also curious if anybody has an idea of the break point for pre-war vs. post-war serial numbers in the Targetspot series?

Anybody know?

 

Regards, Tom  

Very good question about the serial number sequence, and now that Parsons is not around to answer it, it may be difficult to find out for sure; don’t waste your breath asking the folks now running dear the old Lyman company!

It’s easier, however, to distinguish between pre- and post-war scopes of all makes: lens coatings (developed in Germany) became a big selling point right after the war, so a bluish reflection on the lens probably means post-war.  “Probably,” only because many optical companies began hyping coating services right after the war; a ’48 Unertl catalog I have devotes about 10 pages to promoting their coating service for anything optical–binoculars, camera lenses, etc.  I have many pre-war Lyman catalogs, but no post-war, so I don’t know if they were doing the same, but I suspect so.

March 5, 2017
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tom in michigan said
I have a Lyman Super Targetspot which I ordered a research letter for from Parson’s in 2006. The letter gives the following information: Super Targetspot, Serial #9741, 20 power, manufactured 6/27/1951, .0007 standard crosswire, date researched 9/20/06.

When I received the letter I was kind of surprised by the date of manufacture, I assumed the scope was produced a little earlier maybe 1946-48.

I have always wondered if Lyman manufactured each model of Targetspot with its own serial number sequence, or were they were all numbered in the same sequence?

I am also curious if anybody has an idea of the break point for pre-war vs. post-war serial numbers in the Targetspot series?

Anybody know?

 

Regards, Tom  

tom,

The Parson letter you have for your “Super Targetspot, Serial #9741, 20 power, manufactured 6/27/1951” truly has me baffled over these scopes and their serial numbering.  For example, a Senich reference citing Gil Parson/De Le Fortrie Collection for a 20 power Super Targetspot scope was furnished by Lyman in 1949 to the USMC…and the serial number shown for it is 1752 (I’m thinking that the fifth and last number was cropped from the picture).  On a later page, another 20 power Super Tragetspot serial numbered scope 17515 (cited as circa 1949, also) is shown as being USMC Property.  These two scopes are most likely from the same 1949 order, IMO.  

I’ve also wondered about how Lyman serially numbered their scopes and I’m thinking it was by the model.   Like Clarence mentioned, it might be difficult to find out now that Parson is not around.

James

March 5, 2017
6:51 pm
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James,

 Maybe some others with a Parson’s letter for the same model scope will chime in. It would help flesh out some of the ideas presented in this thread.

I suppose it is also possible the USMC scopes were assigned a block of serial numbers out of sequence ahead of the standard production scopes. Maybe as a way to more easily keep track of them during production, or as away to keep count for billing purposes.

Just speculation on my part.

Regards,Tom

March 5, 2017
11:51 pm
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jwm94 said 

On a later page, another 20 power Super Tragetspot serial numbered scope 17515 (cited as circa 1949, also) is shown as being USMC Property…
James  

That date has to be the correct one, as I have a record of #17,227 also mfg. 1949, and #15,194 in 1948.  As you suggested, the serial given for the other one must be a typo.

March 6, 2017
7:28 pm
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Clarence, I’m thinking that way too.  Also, I’m thinking at this time, that both Senich and Parson are correct in that the DOM in most of the cases are for the most part fairly sequential as serial numbers go, but that some partially finished parts were used at a much later date.  Again, for example:  There is a 25x STS SN 12147 that recently sold on ebay, and the 25x was not introduced until 1949 per Stroebel.  This thought supports Tom’s 1951 DOM scope.  What do you think of this possibility?

Tom:  Do you have the wooden box with your 20x and, if so, does it have the old or new style latches…since it appears to me that the new style latches were quite likely being sold shortly before 1949?

James

March 6, 2017
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James ,

       It did come in a wooden Lyman box. I do not know the difference between old and new style latches. If you could provide a description, or post pictures, I will pull it out and take a look.

Regards,  Tom 

March 6, 2017
11:58 pm
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tom in michigan said
James ,

       It did come in a wooden Lyman box. I do not know the difference between old and new style latches. If you could provide a description, or post pictures, I will pull it out and take a look.

Regards,  Tom   

2nd type are “ordinary” latches you could find in any hardware store, 1st type consists of flat brass arms that swing sideways, secured by a rotating latch that’s awkward to fasten.

March 7, 2017
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March 7, 2017
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James and Clarence,

 

It has the old style latches. The hooks pivot from the lid and the stud and keeper is on the bottom. I also have an early Targetspot (3  digit serial #) in the wood box where the hooks pivot from the bottom and the stud and keeper are on the lid.

 

Regards, Tom

March 7, 2017
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tom in michigan said
James and Clarence,

 

It has the old style latches. The hooks pivot from the lid and the stud and keeper is on the bottom. I also have an early Targetspot (3  digit serial #) in the wood box where the hooks pivot from the bottom and the stud and keeper are on the lid.

 

Regards, Tom  

After several times feeling the top start to open when picking up a STS, because the rotating latches weren’t completely fastened as I thought, I began putting a velco strap completely around the box, so the top absolutely could not open if the latches were improperly fastened.  Usually, I always prefer “old” to “new,” but in this case I have to admit the newer ones are an improvement.

I’ve never had one of the first model Targetspots; if you ever think of parting with it, please let me know.

March 7, 2017
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tom in michigan said
James and Clarence,

 

It has the old style latches. The hooks pivot from the lid and the stud and keeper is on the bottom. I also have an early Targetspot (3  digit serial #) in the wood box where the hooks pivot from the bottom and the stud and keeper are on the lid.

 

Regards, Tom  

tom in michigan said
James and Clarence,

 

It has the old style latches. The hooks pivot from the lid and the stud and keeper is on the bottom. I also have an early Targetspot (3  digit serial #) in the wood box where the hooks pivot from the bottom and the stud and keeper are on the lid.

 

Regards, Tom  

Thanks for checking.   The older latches on the box fits nicely with what very little is known at this time where serial numbers and the box latches concerned.  As for the Parson letter verifying the DOM of your 20x scope and your idea about assigning a special block of numbers for the Marine order with a 1949 DOM in the 17000 serial range more significance for me at this time.  Perhaps, the company was in the 7000 range when they began to mark them as USMC Property, and simply added a 1 to their numbering system. 

Your three digit Targetspot sounds like a real collectible item, too!!!!!

James

March 7, 2017
7:29 pm
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clarence said

After several times feeling the top start to open when picking up a STS, because the rotating latches weren’t completely fastened as I thought, I began putting a velco strap completely around the box, so the top absolutely could not open if the latches were improperly fastened.  Usually, I always prefer “old” to “new,” but in this case I have to admit the newer ones are an improvement.

I’ve never had one of the first model Targetspots; if you ever think of parting with it, please let me know.  

    Years ago I bought my first Lyman scope in the wood box at a gunshow. After paying for it I grabbed the box by the handle, the box opened up and the scope rolled out, luckily it stayed on the table and didn’t hit the floor. I learned my lesson, I do not trust the latches on any scope boxes. I pick up the whole box and do not use the handle.

 

Tom

March 7, 2017
7:49 pm
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James,

 Your idea of Lyman adding the numeral one to the serial number for the Marine contract scopes, would explain their being out of sequence with the letter for my scope. It also makes sense when you factor in the references that indicate the USMC scopes were purchased in 1949. It seems plausible that Lyman was building scopes in the 7000 serial number range in 1949. If others with Parsons letters from that period would provide the information they have, it would help prove or disprove this theory.

 

Regards, Tom 

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