Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters




sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_Print sp_TopicIcon
Lyman No. 38 adjustment
June 22, 2021
4:09 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 23
Member Since:
June 2, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Very basic question I know, but does anyone have suggestions for the best way to adjust elevation on a Lyman #38?  I need to sight-in a recently acquired Model 95 SRC .30-06 and haven’t worked w/a Lyman 38 before.  Obvious answer I realize is to use the locking lever, but I’ve noticed the 2 locking lever set screws look fairly delicate, in fact I’m in the process of trying to replace 1, so I’m wondering if you’re better-off w/the followiing approach:

1)  loosening the set screws;

2)  adjusting the “frame stop screw” (not sure I have the terminology right here, can’t find an exploded view of the sight parts) directly with a screwdriver;

3)  finish sighting and adjusting;

4)  then resetting the locking lever and it’s set screws after the gun is zeroed?

Seems to me this would reduce strain on the locking lever “system”, but not sure I really understand how this was meant to work.  I assume Lyman designed it to me used in the field w/o tools, if an unexpected resight was needed, but I may be missing something here.  In taking the locking lever assembly apart, it seems more complex than I expected, but then, as I admitted in an earlier post, I’m no machinist!

Also, I assume the frame stop screw has to be set all the way to the bottom of the locking lever bushing? 

Any help appreciated!

June 22, 2021
8:51 pm
Avatar
NY
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3240
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

Sight was made for quick elevation changes in the field, which is why I like it better than other rcvr sights.  Fussing with set screws? No.

June 22, 2021
11:25 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 538
Member Since:
January 27, 1992
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Just a point I found interesting.  Winchester did not produce increased velocity 30 GOV. 06 cartridges (over 2,700 f.p.s.) until the Model 54 was introduced.  The Model 95 was designed to use the lower velocity (pressure) military cartridges.  I have heard of pressure problems and head space problems developing from heavy use of the higher pressure hunting cartridges.  If you can find 30-06 military ammo you will be fine.  Plus, the lower velocity ammo is a lot more pleasant to shoot.  Or maybe loading your own ammo.  Regarding your sight question, I sighted my 1895’s for proper 100 yard elevation and then screwed the vertical locking screw, the little vertical screw next to the peep, down to touch the receiver top.  Hope this helps.  RDB

June 23, 2021
1:17 am
Avatar
NY
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3240
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

rogertherelic said
Just a point I found interesting.  Winchester did not produce increased velocity 30 GOV. 06 cartridges (over 2,700 f.p.s.) until the Model 54 was introduced.  The Model 95 was designed to use the lower velocity (pressure) military cartridges.  I have heard of pressure problems and head space problems developing from heavy use of the higher pressure hunting cartridges.  If you can find 30-06 military ammo you will be fine.  Plus, the lower velocity ammo is a lot more pleasant to shoot. 

Roger,  2700 fps, with 150 g “ball,” were the original 1906 specs.  In 1926, a 168 g boat-tail bullet was adopted, but velocity was reduced to maintain safe pressure; this was the 1906M1 round.  In 1940, the original loading was re-adopted, this time called M2–by far the greatest number produced.  I’ve never heard of a higher velocity load except with 125g or lighter bullets.

The ’95s rear locking lugs are what can cause excessive head-space even with the standard loading.

June 23, 2021
3:42 am
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 23
Member Since:
June 2, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

clarence said
Sight was made for quick elevation changes in the field, which is why I like it better than other rcvr sights.  Fussing with set screws? No.  

Thanks.  That’s the type of recommendation I was looking for.  Appreciate your help.

June 23, 2021
3:51 am
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 23
Member Since:
June 2, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

rogertherelic said
Just a point I found interesting.  Winchester did not produce increased velocity 30 GOV. 06 cartridges (over 2,700 f.p.s.) until the Model 54 was introduced.  The Model 95 was designed to use the lower velocity (pressure) military cartridges.  I have heard of pressure problems and head space problems developing from heavy use of the higher pressure hunting cartridges.  If you can find 30-06 military ammo you will be fine.  Plus, the lower velocity ammo is a lot more pleasant to shoot.  Or maybe loading your own ammo.  Regarding your sight question, I sighted my 1895’s for proper 100 yard elevation and then screwed the vertical locking screw, the little vertical screw next to the peep, down to touch the receiver top.  Hope this helps.  RDB  

Thanks Roger.  I’ve been very worried about headspacing w/the 95.  This gun is at the limit:  OK w/the field gauge, but past the GO gauge, so I’ve got to take it easy.  I’m going to handload as low as I can, 2600-2700, trying to stay close as possible to .30-40 pressures, which is hard to do w/the 06, and only shoot good cases, while watcihing for any signs of head separation developing.  This is a carbine, so I’m not expecting Wimbledon ranges w/it, and am only going to use it “lightly” for hunting, i.e. along better trails, or gentler country, so this should work.

Will probably copy you and sight in for 100 yds.  Don’t know what range the gun was sighted for, but the vertical screw you reference is a ways above the receiver, so I don’t know if I can get it to touch.  Good advice, tho, and will follow it if I can. 

Your help is much appreciated.

June 23, 2021
3:57 am
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 23
Member Since:
June 2, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Skizzer said

Thanks.  That’s the type of recommendation I was looking for.  Appreciate your help.  

rogertherelic said
Just a point I found interesting.  Winchester did not produce increased velocity 30 GOV. 06 cartridges (over 2,700 f.p.s.) until the Model 54 was introduced.  The Model 95 was designed to use the lower velocity (pressure) military cartridges.  I have heard of pressure problems and head space problems developing from heavy use of the higher pressure hunting cartridges.  If you can find 30-06 military ammo you will be fine.  Plus, the lower velocity ammo is a lot more pleasant to shoot.  Or maybe loading your own ammo.  Regarding your sight question, I sighted my 1895’s for proper 100 yard elevation and then screwed the vertical locking screw, the little vertical screw next to the peep, down to touch the receiver top.  Hope this helps.  RDB  

Roger, I should have also said that I do have some mil ammo I can use for gen’l target practice and plinking, but since I plan to hunt a little w/the rifle, I will have to reload some lower pressure stuff.

Thanks again.

June 23, 2021
1:42 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 314
Member Since:
September 19, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Folks,  Maybe some discussion here may help Skizzer and others.  The thumb piece is designed to quickly loosen and tighten on to the sight’s slide to hold elevation adjustments.  This is done as the two set screws mesh with a nut with indents on the shank of the screw that goes into the receiver at that point.  The set screws do not have to be tightened unusually tight (altho some seem to think so which is why Skizzer has one with the side of the slot broken off), as once in the notches they readily hold the nut that actually tightens down to snug the sight slide.  I almost bet, as was mentioned, that the 100 yard zero will be with a low enough sight that the vertical screw can be set for quick reference to the top of the receiver.  But only one way to find out.  As to pressures and such with cartridges, indeed many 1895’s in .30 Gov’t of 06 will exhibit at least generous headspace.  Military brass is thicker in the head area and tolerates this better.  Reload with the size die only doing enough to allow easy chambering and the brass will hold up better than if full length sized, for brass fired first in that rifle.  This is a really quick and simple explanation and not in great detail at any issue, but hope it suffices.  If you need more details, check with me or others who load and shoot their 1895’s in this caliber.  Note, please, the 1895s  chambered in the older 30 Gov’t of 03 did not seemingly have  the headspace issues as the load was lower pressure with the 220 grain bullet.  At least this is based on my observations.  Tim

PS.  My NRA musket in 30 Gov’t of 06 chambers the “no go” gauge quite easily!  I do shoot it some with military brass and only lightly resize (define that term!) and throw it away after about 4 reloads.  No problems yet.  Long ago I gave up trying to get the last foot per second out of my reloads as well.  

June 23, 2021
6:09 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2809
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

A lot of loading manuals give a recipe for the M1 Garands.  Would this be OK?  These loads were light enough not to bend or break the operating rod.

 

Sierra Manual. 150 grain FMJ, 46.3 grains of IMR 4895 or 46.7 grains of IMR 4064.  These should shoot about 2700 FPS.

June 23, 2021
6:44 pm
Avatar
NY
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3240
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

Chuck said
A lot of loading manuals give a recipe for the M1 Garands.  Would this be OK? 

Easier than that would be to use .30-40 loads, which is what I do to take the punishment out of my ’03.  However, shooting a few commercial hunting rounds (at $2 or more each) isn’t going to wreck the rifle–one box usually lasts most hunters the whole season. 

June 23, 2021
9:22 pm
Avatar
NY
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3240
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
June 24, 2021
3:31 am
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 23
Member Since:
June 2, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

tim tomlinson said
Folks,  Maybe some discussion here may help Skizzer and others.  The thumb piece is designed to quickly loosen and tighten on to the sight’s slide to hold elevation adjustments.  This is done as the two set screws mesh with a nut with indents on the shank of the screw that goes into the receiver at that point.  The set screws do not have to be tightened unusually tight (altho some seem to think so which is why Skizzer has one with the side of the slot broken off), as once in the notches they readily hold the nut that actually tightens down to snug the sight slide.  I almost bet, as was mentioned, that the 100 yard zero will be with a low enough sight that the vertical screw can be set for quick reference to the top of the receiver.  But only one way to find out.  As to pressures and such with cartridges, indeed many 1895’s in .30 Gov’t of 06 will exhibit at least generous headspace.  Military brass is thicker in the head area and tolerates this better.  Reload with the size die only doing enough to allow easy chambering and the brass will hold up better than if full length sized, for brass fired first in that rifle.  This is a really quick and simple explanation and not in great detail at any issue, but hope it suffices.  If you need more details, check with me or others who load and shoot their 1895’s in this caliber.  Note, please, the 1895s  chambered in the older 30 Gov’t of 03 did not seemingly have  the headspace issues as the load was lower pressure with the 220 grain bullet.  At least this is based on my observations.  Tim

PS.  My NRA musket in 30 Gov’t of 06 chambers the “no go” gauge quite easily!  I do shoot it some with military brass and only lightly resize (define that term!) and throw it away after about 4 reloads.  No problems yet.  Long ago I gave up trying to get the last foot per second out of my reloads as well.    

Tim, thanks very much, as this is exactly what I needed to know.  Just got a little confused when I took the thumb lever, set screws and nut apart.  Altho no doubt a simple concept, I was perplexed as to why there were so many detents around the nut for the set screws to take hold in, plus the depth of the nut’s threads that the elevation screw engaged.  Seemed like there are a lot of ways the lever can be set, and I wasn’t sure whether the elevation screw needed to be fully down to the bottom of the nut, or not (it obviously must have to be).  I guess the basic purpose of the lever, nut and screw is just for quick adjustment, as you, or one of the respondents, already said, and all the detents are just to position the lever at whatever angle the shooter preferred, or needed in order to clear the saddle ring, etc.  Anyway, I will adjust the sight as you describe.  I was planning to sight at about 100 yds, so hopefully the vertical screw will touch the receiver.

Reloading tips also very helpful.  I’m used to neck sizing only to try to deal w/an overly generous chamber in another rifle, plus using that approach for most of my rifles once the cartridges have been fire-formed, so this shouldn’t be too much of a problem.  Also, will adhere the “4 strikes yer out” approach on brass, as my gunsmith had also recommended the same.  I’ve got a couple of recipes for low pressure 06, one Trail Boss I believe, and will see if I can get some decent accuracy out of any of those.  Only looking for practical hunting accuracy, not tack driving.  Certainly agree w/you on not trying to get max speed.

June 24, 2021
3:45 am
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 23
Member Since:
June 2, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Chuck said
Or buy these.

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/winchester-victory-series-.30-06-springfield-ammunition-20-rounds-150-grain-m2-ball-fmj-2740fps-m1-garand-wwii-collector-wooden-box/FC-AMM-1027-642.html  

clarence said

Chuck said
A lot of loading manuals give a recipe for the M1 Garands.  Would this be OK? 

Easier than that would be to use .30-40 loads, which is what I do to take the punishment out of my ’03.  However, shooting a few commercial hunting rounds (at $2 or more each) isn’t going to wreck the rifle–one box usually lasts most hunters the whole season.   

That .30-40 approach is what I’ve been trying to set-up.  Hard to find 06 load pressures as low as the .30-40, but at least the lowest recipes should reduce the stress on the bolt and locks.  Trail Boss has some low pressure stuff, but the velocities are sub-2000, so that’s going too far.  Hodgdon’s H4895 Reduced Rifle Loads protocol may offer some options, altho I haven’t looked into it enough to see where the pressures and vels are; as you probably know they talking about a 60% reduction from their maximum load.  This assumes you can find H4895!

Thanks for the help!

June 24, 2021
12:54 pm
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3360
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Skizzer said

rogertherelic said
Just a point I found interesting.  Winchester did not produce increased velocity 30 GOV. 06 cartridges (over 2,700 f.p.s.) until the Model 54 was introduced.  The Model 95 was designed to use the lower velocity (pressure) military cartridges.  I have heard of pressure problems and head space problems developing from heavy use of the higher pressure hunting cartridges.  If you can find 30-06 military ammo you will be fine.  Plus, the lower velocity ammo is a lot more pleasant to shoot.  Or maybe loading your own ammo.  Regarding your sight question, I sighted my 1895’s for proper 100 yard elevation and then screwed the vertical locking screw, the little vertical screw next to the peep, down to touch the receiver top.  Hope this helps.  RDB  

Roger, I should have also said that I do have some mil ammo I can use for gen’l target practice and plinking, but since I plan to hunt a little w/the rifle, I will have to reload some lower pressure stuff.

Thanks again.  

My 30-06 hunting load for quite some time has been Hornady 165 Spire Points and 4350 powder. For some reason this combination performs best at somewhat under max pressure/velocity; about 2500-2600fps out of a sporting rifle. 

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
June 24, 2021
2:36 pm
Avatar
NY
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3240
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

Skizzer said
That .30-40 approach is what I’ve been trying to set-up.  Hard to find 06 load pressures as low as the .30-40, but at least the lowest recipes should reduce the stress on the bolt and locks. 

’06 pressures are what you’re wanting to avoid, isn’t it?  My loads develop no more than .30-30 pressures.  The gun doesn’t care, unless it’s a semi-auto.  Achieving best accuracy with lower pressure is a different kettle of fish, however, & often difficult to achieve. 

June 25, 2021
2:12 am
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 2424
Member Since:
November 19, 2006
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I notice that there is a published Trailboss load for the .30-06:

https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trail-boss-reduced-loads-r_p.pdf

They use a 150 grain Nosler boat tail bullet and the suggesting starting load generates 14,700 PSI (1061 fps) and the recommended maximum load generates 26,400 PSI (1477 fps).

June 28, 2021
4:20 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 23
Member Since:
June 2, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

clarence said

Skizzer said
That .30-40 approach is what I’ve been trying to set-up.  Hard to find 06 load pressures as low as the .30-40, but at least the lowest recipes should reduce the stress on the bolt and locks. 

’06 pressures are what you’re wanting to avoid, isn’t it?  My loads develop no more than .30-30 pressures.  The gun doesn’t care, unless it’s a semi-auto.  Achieving best accuracy with lower pressure is a different kettle of fish, however, & often difficult to achieve.   

Yes it is and those pressures sound good, but like you say, if the pressures drop that low, what kind of luck have you had w/accuracy?  What actual recipe are you using, if  you don’t mind me asking?

thanks for the help.

June 28, 2021
4:24 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 23
Member Since:
June 2, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TXGunNut said

Roger, I should have also said that I do have some mil ammo I can use for gen’l target practice and plinking, but since I plan to hunt a little w/the rifle, I will have to reload some lower pressure stuff.
Thanks again.  

My 30-06 hunting load for quite some time has been Hornady 165 Spire Points and 4350 powder. For some reason this combination performs best at somewhat under max pressure/velocity; about 2500-2600fps out of a sporting rifle. 

 

Mike  

 

That’s interesting since I use 4350 a lot, including .270 and 06, but more in the 2700-2800 range, which still is not a hot load.  Will have to look a the recipes with a velocity in your stated range.  I’m wondering if the pressure is enough lower to be gentle on that 95 action?  Appreciate the help.

Forum Timezone: UTC 0

Most Users Ever Online: 628

Currently Online: clarence, Henry Mero
46 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)


Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 16

Topics: 9182

Posts: 79063


Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1238

Members: 10632

Moderators: 4

Admins: 3


Top Posters:

1873man: 4927

TXGunNut: 3360

clarence: 3239

Chuck: 2809

twobit: 2717

steve004: 2424

Maverick: 1801

Big Larry: 1631

JWA: 1605

RickC: 1408