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Hello all
New member here, but long time lover and collector of Win Mod 70s
I was referred by one of your members, through another forum that I am active in.
Hoping for some assistance on the below project, but I can see myself spending a lot time on this forum absorbing all of the good info that is shared.
Into my very humble collection, has come, an honest to goodness
1936 Winchester Model 70 Type 1-1
3 digit ser #825 !!!!!!!
Over the course of the life of this working man’s rifle, it has obviously borne witness to many “atrocities”.
Some of the factory parts have been replaced with parts incorrect to the rifles original configuration.
I am attempting to replace all of the incorrect parts with period correct parts..
In this endeavor, I am currently looking for:
This rifle was originally equipped with a factory installed adjustable rear peep sight.
Lyman 48 WJS
-Full block design (stock cut-out required)
-Regular Slide (75 point)
-Thimble knobs
https://photos.app.goo.gl/o4RnMjd5wgUhG2F26
Help me restore the glory of this iconic piece of firearm history!
I would very much appreciate any leads that you can offer me.
NE HerdBull
Ps: If I have improperly posted this, or it is in the wrong forum location, no offense was intended.
NE Herd Bull said
I would very much appreciate any leads that you can offer me.
Your best lead is to search ebay, the No 1 market for sights. Member Ben deals in sights, & possibly he has one.
Good luck on your enterprise–#825 deserves a complete restoration!
November 5, 2014
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Hi NE Herd Bull-
Your description of what you need is correct IMHO… 
Although Winchester from the outset called the Lyman 48 series receiver sight on the Model 70 a 48WJS in their advertising/catalogs, for most of 1937 at least the sight used was a 48WJ. The 48WJ was the same sight used on the later Model 54 NRA Standard rifles, having replaced the 48W that was used on the Model 54 1st Standard rifles.
The 48WJ was somewhat of a “transitional” sight between the 48W and 48WJS. The most obvious external difference is the “thimble” shaped elevation knob, but the pitch of the elevation screw on the 48WJ was also different from the 48WJS, such that the slide from one won’t work in the base block of the other. The 48WJ came in either a 75-point or 150-point “long slide” version, the latter having an extended elevation screw that required “T” shaped stock inletting. The 48WJS, with “target” knobs, a finer thread on the elevation screw, and a 60-point scribed slide, became the prevalent sight used from about 1938 onwards.
I do not have a spare Lyman 48WJ, but this is what they look like (48WJ in one pic and 48WJS in the other):
Good luck!!!
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Thank you Clarence…I will contact Ben and see what he has to offer.
Mr. Rich…220 Swift Standard grade
(still learning how to post pics on this forum)
As stated this was a working man’s gun. Probably spent much of it’s life riding in a ranch pickup.
The gun is in poor condition. Metal and wood have been abused.
Sad for sure, but (like all vintage firearms) it whispers a romantic story to me, when it is in my hands.
I feel obligated to restore it to its original glory.
Thanks for the views all.
November 5, 2014
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BTW… The correct front sight to go with the Lyman 48WJ would be a Lyman 31W gold bead (0.310″ high), not the ubiquitous silver (tinned) bead Winchester 103C that came along in 1941. Hopefully your rifle still has the front sight on it, as the Lyman 31W is relatively difficult to locate.
These were only stamped “LYMAN” underneath the dovetail (not on the top right side) and do not have an application code. The contemporary Lyman catalogs recommended the Lyman 31CA (0.295″) for the Model 70 Standard barrel. These are a little easier to find and have the application code stamped under the dovetail, so you at least you know it’s the right one!!!
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
I will check my inventory for the sight you need… I’m leaving today for a short trip, will be home Sunday… Cheers. Ben.
NE Herd Bull said
The gun is in poor condition. Metal and wood have been abused.
Doesn’t look that bad to me. But I wonder why anyone would want a Swift if they didn’t intend to scope it; if you’re not shooting at long range, what’s the advantage of an ear-splitting Swift? Would have made more sense, in fact, to sell the gun sightless. If you intend shooting it, an alternative to acquiring the 48 would be fitting it with a Stith scope mount, that mounted by means of the rcvr sight holes & the rear sight slot.
Ben said
I have Stith mounts for the pre-64 Model 700 too. 😎
How about a Weaver K6 or K8 to go with it? Then the gun will be ready for Ground Hog Day.
NE Herd Bull, That is a neat early Swift before they made them with Stainless Steel barrels. Interestingly the Swift came out in 1935 in the Model 54. .220 Swifts in the Model 54 are some what rare since they were only made during late production of that rifle. I would think that your gun has to be in the first run of the Swift in the Model 70. In 1936 when that gun was made it really had to be something. Over 4,000 FPS, Are You Kidding Me! Good luck with finding your sight. I agree it would be a nice addition for your rifle.
November 5, 2014
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Hi BoRich-
You’re just about right insofar as S/N 825 being an early one… Here’s a clip from a year old version of the combined survey covering 220 Swift serial numbers and style below S/N 1000. Blue is Bob Porter and pink is me (hence some serial numbers are duplicated).
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Bo Rich said Over 4,000 FPS, Are You Kidding Me!
Takes a LOT of shooting, more than most hunters could do in a life time, to “shoot out” most other brls. Not so the Swift.
clarence said
Ben said
I have Stith mounts for the pre-64 Model 700 too. 😎
How about a Weaver K6 or K8 to go with it? Then the gun will be ready for Ground Hog Day.
clarence saidBen said
I have Stith mounts for the pre-64 Model 700 too. 😎
How about a Weaver K6 or K8 to go with it? Then the gun will be ready for Ground Hog Day.
Of course…. A minty 10x Unertl Vulture would be better. 😎
Ben said
Of course…. A minty 10x Unertl Vulture would be better.
Better than a K10? Maybe. Actually, scope blocks would have been installed by any half-way serious varmint hunter. Instead of worthless iron sights, the factory should have sent every Swift out with blocks just like Model 52s, or at the very least drilled for them.
Ben, They are all good scopes, but I don’t believe that they were available in 1936. If it were mine I would put the 48 Lyman on the rifle. With a small eye peice hole you can hit at a pretty good distance. Besides it just looks good!
Been a member for just a little over 24 hours and already I am addicted.
In that short time, you have already offered me invaluable information, insight and inspiration.
What a fantastic resource all of you are and will be.
To be clear, I want to return this rifle to the EXACT configuration that it left the factory in 1936.
Yes one of my old Weaver’s would look good on it, and would make it more functional to shoot. A Unertl Vulture would be dreamy for sure! I fully intend to shoot this gun, and look forward to introducing it to a few prairie dogs and a hopefully a coyote or 2, someday.
I have sent the rifle off to the capable hands of Andrew Hale in Washington state (not sure if he is a member here). As I alluded to in my initial post, lots of things are currently “wrong” on this gun. Mr Hale and I are working together to develop a plan to make this gun “right”. The Lyman sight is what we think is the last missing puzzle piece.
Mr Luttrell, I will be sending you a PM regarding your Mod 70 survey. Perhaps I have information from my humble collection, that you may find of some value.
Keep the comments coming, as I enjoy them immensely.
Bo Rich said
Ben, They are all good scopes, but I don’t believe that they were available in 1936. If it were mine I would put the 48 Lyman on the rifle. With a small eye peice hole you can hit at a pretty good distance. Besides it just looks good!
A prairie dog at 300 yds? Yes, I know, Elmer Keith hit them at that distance with a revolver, but most of us aren’t blessed with that kind of telescopic vision.
Neither the Vulture nor K models were available in ’36. Highest power scope Unertl was making was 14X, external mounts of course. Since a Stith mount wouldn’t cover the hole cut out for the 48, guess that’s really the best choice…unless a better un-cut stock could be found. If the brld action were to be reblued, it wouldn’t match cond of original stock. Starting down that road leads to a money pit, so I’d replace the 48 & stop right there.
November 5, 2014
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NE Herd Bull-
When it comes to scoping this rifle, a 220 Swift, while keeping the Lyman 48 receiver sight, one could consider mounting a pre-war Lyman Targetspot (or early STS or Junior Targetspot), Fecker, or even early Unertl, using a Lyman type BK code cross dovetail block in the barrel dovetail and Lyman type U code (0.185″ high) block on the front receiver ring. The receiver block is the same thing used on M54/70 Target rifles and the long scope sits high enough to clear the receiver sight. No added non-factory holes. This doesn’t quite give the 7.2″ spacing between mounts to yield exactly 1/4 minute click adjustments, but it’s certainly close enough for praire dogs.
Here’s an example on a M54 22 HORNET NRA Standard rifle. Scope is an early 1930’s Fecker, about 10X (power is unmarked). This is Tedk’s gun, not mine. But I did take the pictures!!!
I don’t know if Andy and Justin Hale (pre64win.com) have their WACA memberships paid up, but they know M70s and can certainly help you get the rifle fixed up.
Also… I appreciate any/all contributions to the pre-64 M70 survey!!! We have info on about (21,000) rifles so far. The minimum I need is serial number, style, and chambering, but the more detail (or pics) the better… I do not record the owner of privately owned M70s on the survey spreadsheet, only denote them as “WACA” when contributed by WACA members.
Cheers,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
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