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I am restoring an original Winchester 1876. It was made in 1886, and rebarreled by Winchester in 1888 ( per Cody Letter). Anyway, I am looking for what would have been the proper rear sight (semi-buckhorn) that would have been on this, or would have been proper or an option on this. I read in Pirkle’s book that it should be about 3 and 3/32 inches long with serrated edges. This does not give me much to work with. When buying, I see hundreds of types on “ebay” and other vendors that list all models a particular sight will fit, but looking for a visual reference, if possible. I am hoping one of you may have a visual reference or detailed description to help in my quest.
While my barrel may not be proper ( picked up a restoration project from another person who started it but passed away), I am inclined to eventually replace the barrel in the near future and this sight will be used on it as well.
The rifle started life as a .50 Express Carbine. In 1888, re-barreled as a 45-60 at the factory. The previous owner had a new 50 Express carbine barrel made, but had it made in octagon rather then the round it should have been. So, it’s a “unique” octagon rifle in 50 Express. It has rifle furniture, and the sight work was set for rifle sights ( rear sight notch is about 5” forward if receiver). So, this is my reason for the quest for a sight that can later be moved to a more historically accurate barrel.
I appreciate any insight and education you can provide.
Thank you
Justin
What does the letter say as to the change? Is it still a carbine or rifle? Makes a big difference on what sight goes on it.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
This is what would be on a rifle. Now it could go either way with it having the later slider and screw adjustment since your gun is in that time it changed. You have to make sure the sight you buy is a early one which are taller than later sights.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I have an 1876 in 50 Cal made in 1884 it has the buckhorn with the serrated edges, no screw for adjustment and you have to remember the 50 cals had the early flat stepped elevator like the early 73’s. It is hard to see but the elevator is marked 1-1/2, 2, 2-1/2 and 3 on the side.
1873man said
What does the letter say as to the change? Is it still a carbine or rifle? Makes a big difference on what sight goes on it.Bob
Thanks Bob, et al. Very helpful visual reference. Is there a proper name or “number” for this sight?
I’m learning as I go, and please forgive my ignorance. I farmed out the machine work, CCH, and Rust Blue to Mike Hunter, and now that it’s back, I’m just missing this part to complete the assembly. The stock is on the last of the million applications of the John Kay Winchester Stock oil.
The letter says:
Rifle
Express Caliber
Barrel Length 22”
Barrel Shape Round
Shotgun Butt
Then discusses magazine and trigger.
Then it says in September 25, 1888, changed to 45-60, Octagon Barrel.
(From the old 45-60 barrel, it appears it was about 26”. It’s been hacked off to 22” and a crude sight notch made. This is why the previous owner decided on a replacement barrel with today’s Express caliber. )
Today is has a rifle butt and forearm. I have a brand new walnut Shotgun Butt and proper metal plate that I may inlet this summer. It came with the project when I acquired it from the Widow.
I would rather it have a 26” or longer barrel. I have a 1873 in 32-20 that is 26” and really like the feel. So I may go that route in the next year or so when this is assembled. But working with what I have for now.
I much appreciate you all taking the time to answer.
Justin
I’ve been going over Herbert Houze’s book on the 76. If I am interpreting the data correctly there were very few express carbines made? If this is true I would have this type of barrel made. Does your gun have the full length stock with the carbine butt plate and the express dust cover? You need to have Cody see if they have the original data for this gun. If it turns out to be a carbine you need a carbine rear sight. The one shown was available but is not the most common. The one on the right is more common.
It called the Sporting rear sight in the catalog.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Sorry, I missed your last post while doing research. Standard barrel length for the 50 cal rifles was 26″. My pictures for the rifle sight, elevator and dust cover would be correct for a rifle in 50 cal. Have fun whichever route you take.
Thank you. I’ve tried to find a copy of the Houze book, but can’t seem to find one under $400. A little salty for me. I don’t mind paying good money, but that’s just crazy.
It has the dust cover, and the letter calls it a rifle at 22”, which confuses me, thought that a 22” Express was a carbine, but I’m not the sharpest spoon in the drawer.
The current wood is the rifle wood, the standard forearm and not the really long carbine forearm.
The Cody letter dates this rifle to the date of the re-barrel, but the SN is in the 1886 SN range. I’m not sure if the letter combines data from both, such as calling it a rifle at 22” when it was re-barreled as a rifle.
When I redo the barrel later, I will either go the 22” round Express, but I’m not sure I’d ever find the carbine forearm. Not sure anyone makes a replacement. Or a 26” Octagon. Then reuse what I have in terms of wood and brackets and just replace the barrel and magazine tube.
Justin, You have to decide if you want a 50-95 fantasy gun, or as the letter reads, lettered gun. If you are building a lettered gun you have to interpert the wording of the letter as to the final configuration of the gun and build it. If you post the letter we can help with proper interpretation of caliber, barrel type, barrel length, magazine length, sights, and butt plate. What makes you think this gun was ever a carbine?
The 45-60 is a cheap, easy, accurate, and comfortable caliber to load. The express (50-95) is not as simple to load, accurate, or comfortable. I have shot 22″ 50-95’s and they kick, bark, and shoot fire, but that gets old quick. T/R
Justin,
According to the letter you posted the gun as it left the factory was a Rifle with a standard length 45-60 octagon barrel. If the barrel length is not stated its considered to be the standard length of 28″
Here is a sight on Ebay that would be correct except this one the notch has been filed down making the deep V notch.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
TR,
Here is the letter that came with it. I want to keep it the express caliber. It has the dust cover, and I have all the dies and brass, and mold to make it work with BP. This letter came with the project, it was issued to the previous owner who’s estate I purchased this from. I don’t want a “fantasy” rifle, but I also want to make it into something I can accomplish. So I need to balance searching for hens teeth vs what can actually be procured in terms of parts. Money is not a major issue, the right parts and knowing where to find them is. Appreciate any and all guidance. I sincerely do.
oh, and I was under the impression that a 22” Express was a carbine. Maybe that’s my ignorance.
Right now, it has a 22″ octagon barrel and fill-length magazine tube, with the rifle fore-stock and butt stock. This is how it came to me.
Bob- Thanks for the link. I will go check it out.
Justin, Your gun was originally assembled as a rifle, not a carbine. It had a 22″ round barrel, half magazine, shotgun butt, in 50-95 caliber, what I would call a English tiger gun. It was never shipped in that configuration, it was then modified to a 45-60 octagon, probably 28″ barrel and shipped. With no mention of magazine length, or butt style so we can “assume” they stayed the same.
If you would like to build it back to the first configuration you need a 50-95 round 22″ barrel and a 50-95 elevator. The receiver is the same and the dust cover is a late style 50-95 marked. The fore arm wood may or may not be able to be modified to work, the fore arm cap needs to be replaced with one that fits a round barrel. The sight Bob pictures is possible on that late of a 76. If your gun has a rifle butt you also need a shotgun stock and butt plate.
Assuming your receiver is the late style you need the barrel that has the larger threads. The chamber size changed on 50-95’s so when you ream the chamber get the right ream for cartridge dimension. You want a barrel of modern steel, I have seen the original chambers bulge and the receiver split. When that 50-95 goes off it’s like a 12 ga. T/R
According to the letter, that serial number was shipped as a 22″ round barrel short rifle with button mag and shotgun butt. This is the most common configuration for the guns shipped to England and India for hunting lion. This is a rifle and not a carbine. There were many options for sights on any Winchester, but the letter on this gun doesn’t list any special order sights. If I had to guess, I would say it is the short buckhorn with yardage marks on the elevator that Chuck shows in post #4. I’ve had a lot of 76 Express rifles and from first hand experience, I can tell you that the sight is quite easy to find, but that marked elevator is like trying to find teeth on a chicken. Good luck.
Chuck said
I have an 1876 in 50 Cal made in 1884 it has the buckhorn with the serrated edges, no screw for adjustment and you have to remember the 50 cals had the early flat stepped elevator like the early 73’s. It is hard to see but the elevator is marked 1-1/2, 2, 2-1/2 and 3 on the side.
Chuck,
I have one of those elevators on a extra heavy 73 but does not have the range marks.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I sincerely appreciate the collective wisdom and advice. I will order a proper barrel and forearm cap today.
While not a fan of the short magazine look, I would like it correct. I already have the proper stock and forearm wood which came with the rifle.
Is there a taper or any other factor I need to be aware of when it comes to ordering this barrel I should be sure to ask for tht May be different or unique to this particular rifle? I believe Winchesterbarrels.com is the only place that will make these.
I’ll order the sight Bob found.
Again, thank you all for the help! I came here for sight help and learned so much more.
I bet that there are others who can get one for you. Have you talked to Doug Turnbull?
I am still confused which way you are going? If a rifle, 50 Cal, with octagon 26″ barrel, full mag and rifle butt or the shorter round barrel, half mag and shotgun butt?
1873man said
Chuck said
I have an 1876 in 50 Cal made in 1884 it has the buckhorn with the serrated edges, no screw for adjustment and you have to remember the 50 cals had the early flat stepped elevator like the early 73’s. It is hard to see but the elevator is marked 1-1/2, 2, 2-1/2 and 3 on the side.
Chuck,
I have one of those elevators on a extra heavy 73 but does not have the range marks.
Bob
Bob, I will take a look at my 73. Maybe only the 50 cal 76’s have the yardage marks? But like you said, they appear the same otherwise. The 50 cal is the only one that has the caliber markings on the dust cover.
Chuck, I have a 76 50cal sight with the same markings on the elevator as yours. It is my understanding that only the 50cal 76’s have that marking on the elevator. T/R
TR, I’m sure you are right. I have learned to look at the elevator when picking up a 76 just a quick way to see if it is a 50 Cal. Like when I look at 1897’s, I look for the screws on the forend first. Still may not be as old as I hope but it rules out most of the guns.
Bob, when I pulled the 73 out the elevator does not look like the 50. The only resemblance is the steps are horizontal. The 73 does not have the range markings, the ridges at each flat, and does not have the V notch on the top of the highest hump..
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