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Graduated Peep Sight Variations
July 30, 2020
11:35 pm
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I want to discuss just the Graduated Peep Sight in this thread.   In my May 1, 1879 catalog reprint, this sight is shown.  I don't know if it showed up in the 1878 catalogs, it is not in the 1875 catalog.

It appears to me that there are three variations of this sight.  These variations are not notated in the Winchester catalogs.  

1st variation is known by collectors as the thick base and apparently shows up in the May 1, 1879 catalog.  See below

IMG_3055.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_3056.JPGImage Enlarger

2nd variation is known by collectors as the thin base and first shows up in the November 1887 catalog.  It has an internal spring held with screw. See below

IMG_3053.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_3054.JPGImage Enlarger

3rd variation is similar to 2nd variation but has a different spring configuration that is external and wraps around the leaf portion.  This is the version illustrated in Madis' The Sight Book.  See below

IMG_3051.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_3052.JPGImage Enlarger

Does anyone have other information on the graduated peep sight?  Are there other variations?

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July 31, 2020
1:24 am
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Bill,

The "Graduated Peep" sight was commonly factory installed on the Model 1885 rifles.  There were two varieties, with the difference being the overall height of the staff.  The taller staffed sight was referred to as the "Long range Graduated Peep" sight.  I have  a high-wall in 40-70 Ballard 32-inch No. 3 octagon barrel that letters with it (and with a Lyman No. 5B combination front sight).

Bert

 

Full-left-side.jpegImage EnlargerFull-right-side.jpegImage Enlarger

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July 31, 2020
1:30 am
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Bill Hockett said

It appears to me that there are three variations of this sight...  Are there other variations?  

There's a different one shown in the '74 catalog, with a spring attached to the outside of the base, if the drawing is accurate; sometimes they aren't.

July 31, 2020
3:22 am
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Here is a picture of it.

Bob

external-spring.jpgImage Enlarger

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July 31, 2020
1:40 pm
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1873man said
Here is a picture of it.

Bob

  

Those have got to be RARE!  Never before seen one, so thought the '74 catalog drawing might be an illustrator's error.

July 31, 2020
1:56 pm
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You will find them on Henry's, early 66's and early 73's

Bob

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July 31, 2020
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It looks like the Winchester 36A Graduated Peep Sight in the sight blueprint book.  The change record list on the blueprint for this sight is sparse.  The 36A was used as an option on the Single Shot (1885), 1886, 1890, 1892, 1894 and 1895.

There were only the following changes noted:

     C/P 3465 (regarding the height of the tenon on the disc.)

     P/N 1287 (discontinuing the 1885 and 1873 from the line)

     The sight was obsoleted on 3/2/32

The 36B sight (not pictured) has the following notes on the drawing:

     The 36B is the same as the 36A sight except for the angle of leaf with the base.  The 36B was used on the 1873.

Hope that adds a little to the discussion.

Best Regards,

 

.

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July 31, 2020
2:21 pm
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The earlier peep sight with the external spring is not a graduated peep sight as it has no graduations!  That's why I did not include it in this thread.  Winchester just referred to the early one from the 1875 catalog as a peep sight.

Shown below is a page from an 1882 catalog that shows the early graduated peep sight with the thick base.  It's the one on the right without the vernier.

winsights03.pngImage Enlarger

Shown below is a page from the November 1887 catalog that shows the later graduated peep sight with the thin base.  This is the first catalog that shows the thin base.

winsights05.jpgImage Enlarger

As shown in the catalogs I have, there are no differences in the height of the "leaf" or staff for the graduated peep sight.  Perhaps a longer leaf could be installed by custom order?  In any case, there is only one leaf listed in the parts list.

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July 31, 2020
2:29 pm
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JWA said
IMG_1000.jpgImage Enlarger

It looks like the Winchester 36A Graduated Peep Sight in the sight blueprint book.  The change record list on the blueprint for this sight is sparse.  The 36A was used as an option on the Single Shot (1885), 1886, 1890, 1892, 1894 and 1895.

There were only the following changes noted:

     C/P 3465 (regarding the height of the tenon on the disc.)

     P/N 1287 (discontinuing the 1885 and 1873 from the line)

     The sight was obsoleted on 3/2/32

The 36B sight (not pictured) has the following notes on the drawing:

     The 36B is the same as the 36A sight except for the angle of leaf with the base.  The 36B was used on the 1873.

Hope that adds a little to the discussion.

Best Regards,

 

.  

I think the note about the angle being different is in error on the drawing since the 73 had the same wrist angle as the other models. The 76 is the only one I know of that has a different wrist angle.

Bob

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July 31, 2020
2:34 pm
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1873man said

I think the note about the angle being different is in error on the drawing since the 73 had the same wrist angle as the other models. The 76 is the only one I know of that has a different wrist angle.

Bob  

That could very well be.  Not the first error I have seen on the drawings.

There was also a note about an erroneous drawing change to the 36A sight that was retracted/corrected by F.F. Burton.

Here is the page for the 36B, I suspect that the 36B did in fact have a different angle to the base but you are probably correct in that the applicable model listed (the 73) is in error and they may have meant the 76 since there is only one model listed for this sight.

IMG_1001.jpgImage Enlarger

Best Regards,

 

.

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July 31, 2020
3:44 pm
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1873man said

I think the note about the angle being different is in error on the drawing since the 73 had the same wrist angle as the other models. The 76 is the only one I know of that has a different wrist angle.

Bob  

Bob & JWA,

I'm going to have to disagree with you gentlemen on this minor detail. If there is no difference between the 36A & the 36B, then why have the designation in the first place? And why take the time to create / illustrate a drawing with the very note shown as such.

I have a copy of the January 1, 1917 Standard Site Equipment book. On the various pages with the tables that notes the different models used, the copy I have only notes which models are for the front and rear sights. They do not show which is to be used for the Tang sight, but drawings of all the sights are included in the drawings section of the book.

If you look at the 36A & 36B drawings side by side. The only difference I can see between the two is the angle of the leaf with the base, as noted on the drawings. Why this was done and which model the tang is supposed to fit, I don't know based on the information in the sight book.

See attached drawing with them side by side.

36A36B-SightDwgs.jpgImage Enlarger

Sincerely,

Maverick

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July 31, 2020
4:23 pm
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Brady,

If the staff has a different angle they would need a different model designation to tell them apart for ordering and inventory purposes.

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July 31, 2020
5:15 pm
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1873man said
Brady,

If the staff has a different angle they would need a different model designation to tell them apart for ordering and inventory purposes.

Bob  

Bob,

That was exactly my point. Therefore I don't believe the drawing itself as noted is in any error.

But I as far as any table that lists the 36B as being for the 73 or 76, I don't know and can't clarify with the 1917 sight book I have.

Sincerely,

Maverick

P.S. On a side note that earliest peep sight is mentioned and shown on pages 29-31 in Summer 2020 Collector Magazine in a nice article on a 1st Model 73.

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July 31, 2020
5:43 pm
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JWA said

Here is the page for the 36B, I suspect that the 36B did in fact have a different angle to the base but you are probably correct in that the applicable model listed (the 73) is in error and they may have meant the 76 since there is only one model listed for this sight.

Best Regards,

.  

Hi Maverick,

I think we are saying the same thing.  I agree that there is a difference between the 36A and 36B, I think the "error" on the drawing was listing it for the 73 instead of the 76.  A simple error of 1 digit.

FWIW, Stroebel does list the 36 as an optional sight for the 1876 so it must be indicated somewhere......

Best Regards,

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