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44A carbine rear sight elevator graduations
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December 21, 2022 - 5:26 pm
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I have been looking at carbine rear sights (44A) on various 1873 models.  I notice that one has elevator/leaf graduations from 2 to 9.  

On other sights of this type the graduations go from 0 to 20.  I looked in the Madis sight book but didn’t see any references to leaf graduations.  There is one on eBay now.  

It appears this sight was available on the 1866, 1873, 1876, 1886, 1892, 1894 and probably any model on request.

Did Winchester change the graduations over the years, or did they change for different models?  

Adding in a photo of rear sight on 1873 carbine from 1884.

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December 21, 2022 - 11:00 pm
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Hi Bill,

The Model 73 Musket and 92 Musket both used the 46A rear sight (similar to the 44A) and they were graduated from 2-9.

I checked the change records on the 44A (graduated 0-20) and there was no mention of the graduations ever changing on it.

That is just what I can see on the drawings, I am sure Bob will have more info.

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December 27, 2022 - 11:50 pm
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If I see a 73 with a 0-20 graduation sight on it I assume its been put on later. They always seem to have the U notch not the V that the 73’s have. The 73 sights are called the sporting leaf in the catalogs.

Bob

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December 29, 2022 - 10:26 pm
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Bill Hockett said
I have been looking at carbine rear sights (44A) on various 1873 models.  I notice that one has elevator/leaf graduations from 2 to 9.  

On other sights of this type the graduations go from 0 to 20.  I looked in the Madis sight book but didn’t see any references to leaf graduations.  There is one on eBay now.  

It appears this sight was available on the 1866, 1873, 1876, 1886, 1892, 1894 and probably any model on request.

Did Winchester change the graduations over the years, or did they change for different models?  

Adding in a photo of rear sight on 1873 carbine from 1884.

IMG_5112.JPGImage Enlarger

  

I’ve had a couple SRC 94’s with V notch slides that were marked 2-9. These were DOM 1897 & 1899 src’s.
A couple other src’s I had were marked 0-20, with 1900 & 1904 DOM’s. It appears in 1900 the V notch graduations were changed to 0-20 but that’s just my assumption from my own guns & the 44A’s that I felt were all original to these src’s. 

RickC

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December 30, 2022 - 3:10 pm
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Here is the note about the V/U notch on the back of the 44A drawing.  It looks like it was changed in February of 1914 according to Change of Product notice 2996.

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December 30, 2022 - 3:47 pm
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JWA said
Here is the note about the V/U notch on the back of the 44A drawing.  It looks like it was changed in February of 1914 according to Change of Product notice 2996.

Best Regards,

44A-Drawing-Note.jpgImage Enlarger

  

JWA that was my understanding as well that the U notch was introduced in 1914. Appreciate the confirmation. 

As you stated previous there’s no info on grad marking changes so 1899 has been my cut off year for the 2-9. My 1905 catalog still shows 2-9 markings on the rear carbine sight photo. Probably used the same photo until 1914 or 1915 when the U notch was introduced. 

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December 30, 2022 - 4:35 pm
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RickC said  

As you stated previous there’s no info on grad marking changes so 1899 has been my cut off year for the 2-9. My 1905 catalog still shows 2-9 markings on the rear carbine sight photo. Probably used the same photo until 1914 or 1915 when the U notch was introduced. 

  

That is probably a good date range, the catalogs were notorious for still using out of date drawings/etchings for years after a change.

I suspect that I am missing at least one of the original 44A drawing pages as the product change information list on the back does not start until 1905.  If that is the case then the graduations would have been changed prior to that and are not indicated on the later 44A drawings I have.

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January 4, 2023 - 6:01 pm
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To add to the discussion I found this photo of a sight on an 1876 carbine.  Note the graduations here are different again.  It is marked 1876 which according to Madis means the model of sight, not the gun it was intended for.  I am a bit doubtful about that.  

I believe this is still a 44A although the graduations are different than those intended for the 1873 carbine.

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