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1907 WSL rear sight
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LI NY
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August 6, 2024 - 2:41 am
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I have this rear sight on my 1907, can anybody tell me the designation of this sight? It’s missing the insert, although the screw is there, go figure.

THX

Steve G.IMG_3790.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_3789.jpegImage Enlarger

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August 6, 2024 - 4:15 am
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The sight appears to have been modified (buckhorn filed)…  I am not aware of a Winchester sight that used the “harpoon” elevator.  They were used on Marlin & Savage sights.

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August 6, 2024 - 5:46 am
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Steve,

Neither the sight or the elevator are original to the rifle.  The correct rear sight for the Model 1907 is a 22-J with a 1C elevator.

Bert

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August 6, 2024 - 10:28 am
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Thank you my friends.

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August 6, 2024 - 12:09 pm
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I can’t see the rear sight anyway. Can anyone suggest a blank for the rear and a tang sight to install? THX

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August 6, 2024 - 4:18 pm
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Steven Gabrielli said
I can’t see the rear sight anyway. Can anyone suggest a blank for the rear and a tang sight to install? THX

  

Steve,

Lyman made a tang sight to fir the Models 1905, 1907, and 1910 with a short base.  It is coded “SL” on the underside of the sight base.  They are not easy to find! Lyman also made the sight blanking pieces.

Bert

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August 6, 2024 - 4:58 pm
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Steve,  You may well already know this but, if you put a tang sight on your .351 SL and intend to shoot it, do be careful not to get your shooting eye too close to the aperture. I’ve shot a couple of 07s enough to know the recoil is surprisingly heavy for what is essentially only a .357 Maximum round.  Once that big lead bar in front loads up with energy, it doesn’t want to stop its rearward travel!

You will recall the story of gunwriter Captain Paul Curtis’s wife, who lost her shooting eye from the tang sight of a .300 Savage when taking an uphill shot at a mountain sheep. 

If you can learn the needed stem height for the 07, I think there may be other, more common, Lyman and Marble tang sights the bases of which could be modified (base cut down, holes welded up, re-located and drilled) to fit the length and mount hole locations of a drilled and tapped 07 tang. 

Show us pix as you go along. There are no voyeurs like Winchester voyeurs. 

- Bill 

 

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"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

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August 6, 2024 - 6:07 pm
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Thanks Zeb, never hurts to be reminded about a potential injury.

Here it is with that rear sight now removed. I picked this up at auction, I think it was $330 as a project rescue rifle. The stock that came with it was pistol gripped and glued together, I think I counted at least 6 pieces. I replaced that stock with this one I was able to grab ( pure luck ). I am not sure if straight stocks were still being used at this sn range? But that’s all I had.

I did a complete disassembly , and yes the recoil spring reinstall is a project itself, I used a home made slave rod with a pin. The amount of crud inside leads me to believe it has not been cleaned since 1918.

Will have to replace the forend, rear sight, and butt plate (  NC ordnance repro, however the 2 screws are original ). I have a 22 series sight around somewhere, maybe I’ll just put it on to see how it shoots.

The front sight is a Marbles Sheard, .190 high, from the top of the barrel dovetail to top of the sight. Any opinions on Marbles front sights? I think my .401 has a Marbles number 6 front sight with I think a proper 22 J rear. I really do not know how to ID all the 22 series sights.

IMG_0690.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_0691.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_0692.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_3796.jpegImage Enlarger

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August 8, 2024 - 1:20 am
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Steve, it’s looking good already.  I know the 1905 32SL and 35SL were offered with straight stocks – I had one once –  but I’m not sure the 1907 ever was; at least I’ve never seen one. Of course, never say never for that period of time. I think then WRA would eat a dead rat sandwich if you laid enough money down. 

In any event, it looks right and sleeker than the weak pistol grip New Haven was putting on the sporting version back then.  There were so many optional front sights you could put on any Winchester of that period, including the Sheard, without a document to the contrary I’d call it factory and see how it shoots when you get the correct factory rear sliding leaf and ladder Bert named. I don’t think those are that rare.

But, if you’ve got a collimeter, see where the present bead falls on the collimeter grid when the bead is in the rear notch of the existing rear. You may be pleasantly surprised. At least you’ll have a better idea of how much adjustment range you need and may or may not have. If you have trouble seeing the existing front bead, I’d replace it with 1/16 or even a 1/8 brass or “ivory” bead.  Even I can see those on a 20 inch barrel. Let’s face it,  observation balloons and fleeing criminals are larger than woodchucks and prairie dogs. MARBLE MAKES GOOD CURRENT PRODUCTION SIGHTS. ONCE YOU KNOW THE OAH AND SIZE BEAD YOU WANT, YOU CAN BUY NEW AND VINTAGE FRONT SIGHTS OFF THE WEB. YOU JUST NEED TO KNOW THE NUMBERS. SHOP OAH AND STYLE, NOT PART NUMBERS.

To “shoot in” the correct height front sight, get one of those sectional plastic tab front sights from Brownell or make one. Put whatever rear sight you want to use at middle elevation and start shooting at 25 yards, cutting off segments of the front blade until the point of impact descends into the X ring. Mike the OAH of the remaining front sight, record the measurement in thousandths of an inch and go shopping. 

My own experience with an obviously tweaked set of irons on an old but originally expensive Winchester, has often been whoever did it was not an idiot. An 07 was never cheap. 

Caveat: I’m not part of the “it’s-all-original-or-it’s-trash” gang, particularly if I’m going to shoot it. And I shoot everything.  

- Bill 

 

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"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

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August 8, 2024 - 1:27 am
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Marble and Lyman make perfectly acceptable rear sight blanks that will serve if you go with a tang sight. There are vintage blanks on eBay if you insist on paying double. From everything I’ve seen, Winchester bought blanks from Lyman and maybe others. They gave them part numbers but that was eyewash.  

- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

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August 8, 2024 - 2:12 am
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Thanks, I agree, I shoot everything. Yes I do not see many 1907s with the straight stock, a few of the ones I saw are actually 1905s mislabeled. There is this one, but who knows, probably altered also.

https://www.proxibid.com/lotinformation/79629560/winchester-1907-351-cal-12972

Steve.

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August 8, 2024 - 3:12 am
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I called a part wrongly. I said ladder and meant elevator.  Ladder means something else in WACA speak.  

If I can dig out my Vintage Gun Sights book, I’ll see if I can put up the codings for the 22 and it’s various elevator pieces.  

If the straight hand stock turns out not to be kosher for the 07 but you like it ( as I do), might you consider a repro red Winchester solid pad? If you’re going to refinish the stock, that would set it off handsomely. If you’re going to load and shoot it, you already know what that hard buttplate is going to feel like, since you’ve got the 1910. I’ve never even held one of those in my hands but, extrapolating from my experience with a sporting 1907, I have an idea one round of 401 would peg my fun meter enough for the day.  

One of the things I sold in a moment of madness was the nicest Remington Model 81 in .300 Savage I’ve ever seen, complete with the correct Redfield micrometer receiver sight and a like-new, brown Pachmayr ventilated pad that kept the price reasonable. The long recoil mechanism was something to behold when you touched one off but it was not nearly as disconcerting and abrupt as that 351.  The 81 was robust and beautifully made of lots of expensive, machined steel parts.  Postwar I’ll bet they sold every one they made at a loss.  I wish I’d kept it to display alongside my Fifties 07.  JMB vs Tommy Johnson, TKO in the first round. 

- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

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August 8, 2024 - 11:17 am
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Like this one, it’s refinished by my friends Uncle, when he passed he left it to me. .35 Remington.IMG_0624.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_0625.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_0626.jpegImage Enlarger

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August 8, 2024 - 9:29 pm
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Absolutely.  I firmly believe everyone who seriously collects Prewar Winchesters should have, if possible, one or two Remingtons of comparable age designed by Browning or Pedersen, and at least one Savage 99 and a Marlin 39, to illuminate the competitive marketplace Winchester was facing. Before the dawn of the Twentieth Century, Winchester ruled the roost but then kneecapped itself by breaking with JMB.  

I’m an admirer of the best works of Henry, King, Mason, Johnson, Burton, Roemer, Humiston, Williams, and Sefried, although I do note the Winchester-branded rifles now selling most prominently here in the 21st Century were the inventions of JMB. Yes, some credit is due Jack Kilby — strike that — a LOT of credit is due Kilby and also the dedicated artisans of Miroku who can’t even own their own wares. 

I’m grateful all my favorite Winchester designs and the rights to make them are in the hands of a major company that appreciates them and is inclined to keeping them in profitable production for un-wealthy customers to buy and use.  Winchester fans much younger than I am have no idea how impossible, even ridiculous, such an idea seemed in, say 1955. THAT is the true worth and importance of the Miroku Winchesters. 20240508_101312.jpgImage Enlarger

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- Bill 

 

WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist

"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.

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