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November 7, 2015
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Chuck said
Range guesstimating is hard even for above average shooters. Then when you get it on the closest notch you then may have to adjust your sight picture to get it exactly where you need it.
I suck at range guesstimates but I’ve hunted with folks who are very good at it. I’ll practice a bit using a rangefinder but that generally reinforces my opinion of my (lack of) skill in that area. I’ve hunted with bow hunters and surveyors, they seem to be very good at estimating distance.
Now y’all have me wondering what kind of sight is on the rifle I’m cleaning. Guess I’ll see what my Madis book says.
Mike
JWA,
Does your book have information on early sights in the 1870’s? If so does it include model numbers? What is the earliest drawing date? T/R
TR, I just looked at my Madis sight book. He shows the 22 A as a flat top? This only confuses me because he does not show the earliest #22 used on the late 66’s and earliest 73’s nor the next evolution where there is no adjustable aperture. His 22B example looks OK. He also shows 22 C, D ,E, F ,G, H, J and K.
Chuck,
The Madis book and Tim Tyler’s seem to start in the 1880’s. They don’t show the thick base tang sights and several other early sights. My source for earlier sights has been 1870’s catalogs and they don’t list numbers or letters. They list name, price, and show a picture.
These drawing JWA has are the source, I just don’t know how far back they go. T/R
Online
TR said
JWA,Does your book have information on early sights in the 1870’s? If so does it include model numbers? What is the earliest drawing date? T/R
Hi TR,
I don’t know how far back the drawings go. The book has them in order sequentially by sight number but there are some in there that don’t have numbers ( like the old vernier style tang sights).
I am sorry I just don’t know anything about pre-1900 sights, can you give me some examples of 1870’s sights that I can look up and see if they are included?
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA,
In the 1875 catalog they list a “Vernier Peep Sight” $10.00, in morocco case with .”Wind Gauge Sights, with Spirit Level, extra disc.” $18.00. The picture looks like a 38B sight but has a thick base. They also show a “Graduated Peep Sight” $5.00. It looks like a 36B but it has a thick base. These sights were used until 1885, I think? They list a “Peep Sight” $3.50 that has a long external spring and screw on top, these are found on 1866’s and first model 1873’s. Also the simple little elevator for early Sporting Rear Sight with the flat steps. These are pictured in the Madis book but no number listed.
If any of these are pictured or referred to by a number it would be useful information. I’m wondering if they ever assigned a number to those early sights..T/R
TR said
JWA,In the 1875 catalog they list a “Vernier Peep Sight” $10.00, in morocco case with .”Wind Gauge Sights, with Spirit Level, extra disc.” $18.00. The picture looks like a 38B sight but has a thick base. They also show a “Graduated Peep Sight” $5.00. It looks like a 36B but it has a thick base. These sights were used until 1885, I think? They list a “Peep Sight” $3.50 that has a long external spring and screw on top, these are found on 1866’s and first model 1873’s. Also the simple little elevator for early Sporting Rear Sight with the flat steps. These are pictured in the Madis book but no number listed.
If any of these are pictured or referred to by a number it would be useful information. I’m wondering if they ever assigned a number to those early sights..T/R
Hi TR,
Sorry for the delay in responding, I am out of town until Friday but will take some photos of those pages for you when I get back.
The 36A application on the drawing indicates it was an option for the S.S., 86, 90, 92, 94 and 95.
The 36B drawing does not illustrate the sight but says it is “the same as the 36A except for the angle of the base” and it was used on the 1873.
The similar 38A application on the drawing indicates it was an option for the S.S., 86, 90, 92, 94 and 95.
The 38B drawing again does not illustrate the sight but says it is “the same as the 38A except for the angle of the base” and it was used on the 1873.
Similarly, the 62A application on the drawing indicates it was an option for the 92 and 94 and the 62B was specifically for the 1873.
There are also drawings of some sights in the book which have a handwritten notation that says “never manufactured”.
I am familiar with the cased sight set and do not recall seeing it in the drawings. Keep in mind these are only the sights that Winchester manufactured in-house. Any out-sourced sights are not included. I am unsure as to whether Winchester made those cased sets or not.
I also feel that there seems to be an earlier “sight book” that contained all of the same type of drawings and notations that was possibly superseded by this book. It seems most of the notations commence in the late 1890’s and go through early 1935 and then this book abruptly stopped being maintained so there may have been another book after this one that took its place. That is just a guess but based on all of the notations, referenced change orders, drawing dates, etc. it appears as if this book captured the era of late 1890-1935 and there are only small residual references to early sights and changes, usually handwritten notes on the drawings.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Jeff,
I find it odd that they say the 73 has a different base angle. The 73 has the same wrist angle as the SS, 86,90, 92, 94 and 95. The 76 is the odd duck with a different wrist angle for the tang sights.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Just to beat this topic up a little more I recently looked at an 1866 late production gun in the 152,000 serial number range. It has the round barrel and a #22 rear sight. The edges of the buckhorn have the serrations and there isn’t an adjustable aperture. This gun is in very original and in un-cleaned condition. The rear sight and elevator are definitely original to the gun. The early elevator has the flat steps. This is not the first iteration of this sight. I believe the shorter ones were the first. Not only are these shorter but the flat area of the sight is shaped a little differently with beveled sides.
I guess the 1870’s info is nowhere to be found???
Chuck,
If your 66 has the flat elevator and is the early short style sporting rear its not the #22. The #22 was longer like the later sights with the angled elevator
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I have seen a lot of 1866s in the 152,000 range, early 1880s, that have the 22 style rear sight without movable aperture. I think it was one of the sights used not only in the 66 but also 73 of that time period. Earlier guns had the shorter ones with the elevator with flat steps, I don’t know if they put a number to those sights. T/R
1873man said
Chuck,If your 66 has the flat elevator and is the early short style sporting rear its not the #22. The #22 was longer like the later sights with the angled elevator
Bob
Bob it is not my gun. It does not have the short sight but does have the flat elevator. There are no marks on the top of the barrel to indicate this hasn’t been on this rifle for ever. Like TR said looks just like the ones used on the 73’s except maybe the elevator?
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