Log In
Members
Home
Add Reply
Add Topic
Offline
I have a black diamond trap serial # 60907. It is in rough condition no bluing, stock worn smooth. I want to restore it to preserve it . I know some may say I shouldn’t, but it needs a lot of love.
i have several questions.
1. Was it rust blued?
2. What finish was used back then?
3 was it stained too or just finished? The color of the wood is reddish and very light. The wood looks like a piece of English with a red stain.
4. Should I use an alkenet root stain? French red filler?
5. The worst thing is the butt is curved, but there is no widows peak in the wood. Someone nailed and glued with the most tenacious glue I have ever encountered a funky rubber pad that is falling apart. What should I use or source for the butt plate? I can’t seem to find any repo’s that are curved, and any original steel would not be correct to it either
6. What was the checkering like? Flat top or sharp diamonds?
thanks for any info. I am an amateur but have successfully checkered many stocks. You can still make out the outlines of the original pattern and the spacing. The stock may have been re-varnished along the way over the worn checkering. As the finish on the forend doesn’t match the shine on the butt. I don’t want to change the characteristics of this old gal, but she really needs some love
‘Jerry
Online
Hello Jerry,
Are you sure that the serial number is “60907”? Per the factory records, that serial number was a plain Jane (Field) grade gun. It is listed as a Take Down w/30″ Full choke barrel.
Winchester rust blued the barrels, and machine blued the receiver frames.
The stocks were typically stained American Black walnut with an oil finish.
If the serial number is correct, you have an aftermarket upgraded gun. Nothing you do to it at this point is going to make it any worse.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Jerry, the couple of stocks I wanted to take back to a more original look, I used this: https://homesteadparts.com/shop/stock-oil-winchester-restorations-4-oz-p-1782.html .
A little pricey but ready to go. You can cut it with mineral spirits and do several hand-rubbed coats over many days and the result is wonderful in my eyes. You have to remove any current applied finish though first obviously, I used a furniture stripper for that. There’s a great instruction guide and info on that linked page you can review, good info.
Bert my old diabetic eyes were wrong the number is 609073
in light of that could you help me with my other questions.
understand I respect the old guns when they are still original and not in need of love to keep them going. I have a low wall .25-20 single shot that I spent hundreds of $ to get ammo to shoot it. It is in very high condition and I would never mess with it.
i hope now that you have the proper number maybe you can Tell me more
Jeremy thanks for the info
Ok, that makes it a late December 1913 production “E” series gun. Unfortunately, no records for it survive.
Can you provide pictures of the gun? If so, please send them to my email – [email protected]
As I mentioned in my first reply, the barrel was “rust” blued, the receiver frame was “machine” blued. The stocks on the Black Diamond Trap guns were originally a high gloss hand rubbed oil finish. The checkering was sharp (pointed).
I am not aware of any source for a molded hard rubber butt plate. Winchester did install Silvers recoil pads on special order at the time your gun was manufactured.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
At one time, Connecticut Shotgun Company offered a pretty good reproduction Silver’s pad. Williamson quotes President Theodore Roosevelt’s correspondence with Winchester about his requirements for the Model 1895 rifles he proposed to take to Africa, which included Silver’s pads. TR knew better than crescent steel for his.405.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Never shot a 405 but I have a 35 WCF with a shotgun butt and it kicks like a mule.
Chuck said
Never shot a 405 but I have a 35 WCF with a shotgun butt and it kicks like a mule.
After Herstal Group got a fresh license from Olin, its subsidiary called on Miroku to start building the 1895 again, using the same plans employed to make the 1895 for Browning in the Nineteen Eighties, but rollmarked with the Winchester brand. Started off with the .30/06, which sold well. Next up, however, a bright light ordered a run made in .270 WCF, which was stupid. Apparently with the urging of one or more gun writers, the unsold batches of the 1895/270 were shipped back to Miroku and re-barreled to 405 WCF after Hornady agreed to make ammo and brass. The lot sold out fast and more were made.
One night some years ago, perusing GB I saw an Alabama firm selling an NIB 405 that had a TEX serial number with a color cased receiver and a flat steel shotgun buttplate. At a guess, these were a special order from a regional group of distributors, but the price was fair and I’d already owned a Browning ’06 long enough to know the quality was very high and the money wasn’t ever going to get me a nice 405 original.
I laid in and still have dies, brass, bullets, and a couple boxes of Hornady ammo. I could be wrong but it looks like the Miroku stocks are somewhat straighter and the forearms are slightly more fullsome. I shot it a few times, quickly saw it was shooting a foot high and there wasn’t enough elevation adjustment available to fix it. Needs a new front sight. Recoil is bearable because the rifle is no featherweight but, after 5 rounds at the bench, I’d had about all the fun I wanted.
Other projects took priority but I have a plan. The rifle is a beauty and deserves a Lyman 21 or 38 receiver sight and a Silver’s red recoil pad just like TR ordered for his medicine gun. The good thing about reproduction Winchesters is you can improve them and not suffer death threats. The improvements aren’t a bargain, however.
But what a hawg rifle.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
1 Guest(s)
