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January 8, 2025
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Could this be real? Would it be a military trap team? Seems strange to me. But former military guys and marking experts please chime in. It’s in the current on time auction at rock island. The bomb and US do not look correct to me.
April 15, 2005
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99.99% odds that it is a FAKE.
This is what an authentic U.S. Ordnance marking looks like on a Winchester shotgun…
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 20, 2023
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Zebulon said
Here’s what Gemini says. Summary: not a real Ordnance mark.
Here’s what Gemini says. Summary: not a real Ordnance mark.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 8, 2025
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Thanks guys, I knew it couldn’t be real Thought it was a good candidate to share and discuss. Here are the rest of the details. I would assume having fake markings would put it as a parts gun. Like I tend to buy. Without them what’s a 37 in good condition worth? Or what are they going for. I don’t think I’d give $500 for it. That’s what that $350 bid will be at RIA after taxes and fees.
November 7, 2015
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RIA’s description carefully avoids any opinion about the “ordnance markings”, merely describes them. Seems they don’t believe they’re authentic ordnance markings.
Mike
January 8, 2025
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I did a cursory look on GB. It’s maybe $400-$500 without the ordinance markings. With them I’d say parts -the receiver, $150? Someone is going to pay a lot for a novelty.
November 7, 2015
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MidwestCrisis said
I did a cursory look on GB. It’s maybe $400-$500 without the ordinance markings. With them I’d say parts -the receiver, $150? Someone is going to pay a lot for a novelty.
Agreed. I like to call them “fantasy items”, sort of like the Colt padlock that looks so good on my mantel next to a replica SAA revolver.
Mike
April 15, 2005
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A Winchester Model 37 12-ga in typical used condition is at best a $200 gun. I personally would not spend more than $100 for one of them.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 8, 2025
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TXGunNut said
MidwestCrisis said
I did a cursory look on GB. It’s maybe $400-$500 without the ordinance markings. With them I’d say parts -the receiver, $150? Someone is going to pay a lot for a novelty.
Agreed. I like to call them “fantasy items”, sort of like the Colt padlock that looks so good on my mantel next to a replica SAA revolver.
Mike
I was in Denver back in 2003 and looked at rack of SAA replicas for longer than I should have. I was 18. They looked really good, and honestly I didn’t know what a replica gun was then. They were $70. I almost bought one. Turns out, the only money I lost at that mall was giving a homeless man a cigarette.
January 8, 2025
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Bert H. said
A Winchester Model 37 12-ga in typical used condition is at best a $200 gun. I personally would not spend more than $100 for one of them.
I was leaning that way. I know most sellers on GB are pretty proud of their stuff. Let’s see if that shotgun turns back up in a couple weeks with someone asking you to authenticate it.
January 8, 2025
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TXGunNut said
RIA’s description carefully avoids any opinion about the “ordnance markings”, merely describes them. Seems they don’t believe they’re authentic ordnance markings.
Mike
I’ve done enough business with them, their customer service is excellent. However I’ve never been offered a free hat. They shouldn’t have had title say US marked, and then avoided it in the description.
November 5, 2014
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I am NOT saying that the markings on the RIA Model 37 are genuine, but I do take exception with Zeb’s AI advisor… 
This is a clip from the WINCHESTER (not Ithaca) 1942 Quotations and Orders ledger. It shows a quotation made to the U.S. Department of War on 5-12-42 for (2090) Model 37 shotguns (G3701S, G3702S and G3703S) as well as (1700) Model 24 shotguns. The red pencil below indicates that the ORDER was received on 7-8-42. IF Winchester filled the order (which presumably they would want to do, since they issued the quote), then there were a couple thousand M37s sold to Department of War in 1942.
This isn’t the only quotation/order for M37s (or M24s) in the 1942-1944 ledgers, but it is the largest… Would they be ordnance marked? I dunno… 
But they didn’t “come off retail or distributor shelves”… They came from the Winchester’s factory and were sold to the Department of War…
FWIW… There is some really good information in these ledgers for the WWII shotgun collector, as they record all of the quotations issued for M12 and M97 shotguns (actually all firearms) to Government agencies. Scans of the complete ledgers (including all the ammunition, flashlight batteries, lubricants, etc. sold) can be downloaded from the McCracken Library archives.
Best,
Lou
P.S. My Birthday is June 15th, so that makes ME a “Gemini”…
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
January 20, 2023
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To break the news gently to your would-be digital replacement, let us adopt Sherlock Holmes’ explanation to Dr. Watson that, while Watson was completely wrong in his conclusions, he was a great stimulator of thought:
“While you, yourself, Watson, are not luminous, you are a conductor of light.”
[ n,.b. The quote is approximate because the text is not in front of me as I write.]
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
December 9, 2002
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LOUIS LUTTRELL SAID,
I am NOT saying that the markings on the RIA Model 37 are genuine, but I do take exception with Zeb’s AI advisor…
Lou,
I am in agreement with you, and can understand you’re take. I can’t tell you how many times, as I’ve stated in the past, that I’ve corrected Chat GPT, with documented facts, and they agreed, verifying my information, and then correcting it, when another family member asked the same question as I did a few days later as a bonafide test on my part. These AI sources are only as good as what’s fed into them from the beginning, and from past written articles of information, which we have proven here on more than one occasion, that new information based on facts and re search, can change some thoughts of information. IMHO!
Tony
April 15, 2005
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Somewhere in the cobwebs occupying space inside of my head, I seem to remember that Winchester Model 37s were purchased by the DOD for use as Line Throwing Guns (US Navy & Coast Guard). There are no documented cases of use by regular troops (Army).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Bert H. said
Somewhere in the cobwebs occupying space inside of my head, I seem to remember that Winchester Model 37s were purchased by the DOD for use as Line Throwing Guns (US Navy & Coast Guard). There are no documented cases of use by regular troops (Army).
Bert
I don’t doubt that Uncle Sugar bought a few Model 37’s but I feel pretty sure they would have been serialized as part of the contract or would have some type of inventory number applied. I’ve read of other Winchester models normally not serialized that were serialized when part of a government contract. I have cobweb issues as well but I’d be more inclined to believe the ordnance markings if it had some type of serial number or something similar.
Mike
November 26, 2014
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Lou is correct. There are ordnance records that show over 5,400 M37s were acquired, many sent to the Springfield Ordnance District. No one knows if they were martially marked.
April 15, 2005
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Tom D said
Lou is correct. There are ordnance records that show over 5,400 M37s were acquired, many sent to the Springfield Ordnance District. No one knows if they were martially marked.
The odds are very high that they were not ordnance marked… if they had been, at least a few hundred of them would have been found by now.
I also do not believe that the Government would have put serial numbers on them. Rack or inventory numbers would have been much more likely.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 5, 2014
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Tom D-
Speaking of ordnance records… Do you know if there is a way (publicly accessible database) to look up these US Government sales from the purchaser’s side based on the Contract Number given in the Quotations and Orders ledgers? For example, DA-W-478-ORD-535-42-2361 714X 1942 in the above excerpt.
Reason I ask is that I’d like to track down military (USMC and SOD) purchases of Model 70s from the Government side. There are similar contract numbers on those entries, but it there a record of receipt? The USMC rifles are well documented, both in the ledger and in a follow-up letter from Edwin Pugsly to USMC that confirms the number purchased/shipped (he was trying – unsuccessfully – to solicit further sales so he also tells them what Winchester’s warehouse inventory of 30-06 M70s was at the time). But there was another big order from SOD (a couple thousand M70s) and I’ve never seen anything about it… They were “quoted” and an order was placed (there is a Contract Number), but was the order actually filled?
Thanks,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
November 26, 2014
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Lou,
I do not know if there is a way to look up the Government sales. You might try and contact Bruce Canfield. He somehow obtained the information on the M37 acquisitions and may be able to help. Last known contact I have for him is below.
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