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November 7, 2015
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Finally found a riot gun to fill the 1897 hole in my little collection. Gentleman offering it had a table near mine this weekend at the TGCA show. The agency marking is a bit of a puzzle, I’m thinking it was a railroad gun. A Texas DPS trooper familiar with long guns issued by his dept. confirmed it was unlikely to have been issued by his agency but wasn’t sure about prison issue. Another TGCA member suggested the railroad theory and it sounds plausible. Seller has a lead on some provenance, will see how that works out. Any idea who would mark a shotgun as this one has been marked?
Yes, it’s a rough-looking old brute but I’m OK with that. It has a bit of blue hiding in out-of-the-way-places and it functions quite well. Methinks a round or two of skeet would be fun with this old beast. And yes, I paid a bit too much for it but I wanted a solid specimen that hasn’t been modified and that’s easier said than done around here.
Mike
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Mike,
I cannot clearly see what is marked on it, or what the serial number is…
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
Online
Bert-
Markings aren’t clear, will try again tomorrow. Pic of markings on receiver is better than I can see in most artificial light. Rack numbers seem to be “7” but the one on the side looks like it may not actually be a “7”. SN 332695 with a “D” over the receiver serial number. Slide stamping is correct according to Madis and patent dates end in Oct 16, 1900, Barrel is stamped “12” next to the barrel proof mark.
Mike
Mike,
The serial number identifies it as a July 1906 production gun. Up through WW I, the vast majority of the Model 1897 Riot Guns were Solid frames, making your Take Down Riot Gun somewhat uncommon. The round knob pistol grip butt stock your gun has is my favorite style. Winchester discontinued it as a standard item in October of 1907, though it could be ordered as an option through 1913. Of possible interest, Cody has the factory ledger records through serial number 377999, which means that you can get a factory letter (or research sheet) for this gun.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
Online
Thanks, Bert. Hadn’t looked into Cody records, will do. I seldom take advantage of all the searches/letters included in my memberships. I realized this morning that the pistol grip is one thing that drew me to this shotgun. I don’t understand the utility of a takedown frame in a riot gun but I guess that’s why I like this gun, it’s just a little bit odd. Will post when I hear back from Cody.
Mike
November 7, 2015
Online
Took a few more pics, will see if these are clearer. Sun didn’t cooperate so had to press my loading bench lamp into service. First pic is what I believe are agency markings. Second pic is upper/left corner of left receiver panel, likely nothing significant.
Mike
November 7, 2015
Online
Got around to cleaning my “new” “riot gun” last night; last time I saw a riot gun that dirty I think someone got some unpaid days off, lol. It was pretty nasty; matter of fact I’m letting it soak a bit before I go after the rest of that bore fouling.
Bad news from Cody today, my “Riot Gun” was shipped with a 30” (probably “Full”) barrel and an interchangeable 26” Cylinder bore barrel. I had some nagging doubts when the barrel measured just a little short of 20” but I was swayed by the smooth muzzle and the front sight exactly 1/2” from the muzzle. Win some, lose some. I’ll have a little fun on the skeet field and either sell it off or keep it for home defense. It would certainly be more appropriate for a Winchester collector than the shiny new 1300 currently doing bedside duty.
Mike
November 7, 2015
Online
Wow, this old gun shoots! Took it to the club to shoot some skeet but wound up on the trap field. Felt silly with a short cylinder bore shotgun but I didn’t miss a bird until I had a run of about 12 going and then I blew it. This old 1897 has ejecting issues so it’s just as well I didn’t take it over to the skeet field after all. Old gun fits me very well with a slip-on recoil pad and the pistol grip stock felt great. Only one of my shooting buds was brave enough to shoot it, he couldn’t stop grinning.
Mike
November 7, 2015
Online
Learned a hard lesson tonight about reproduction parts. The extractor I bought for this old 1897 was .007” too thick and the pin hole was .012” too small. I can understand it being a little too thick but the hole being too small was pretty hard to swallow. I burned up three titanium drill bits getting the hole to spec in this hardened steel part. Even the replacement pin was too big for this extractor. Disassembly and reassembly was a bit more tedious than I expected but I suppose that’s part of the learning curve for this old gun. It was a bit late for a live fire function test after I finally got it together, had a bit of ironing to do anyway. 😉
Mike
Mike,
The Model 1897 is my favorite Winchester shotgun (I have about a dozen of them in my collection), and they are a real hoot to shoot. I have a “D” series Brush Gun that I love to use for “slam-fire” demonstrations… I can shuck 6-rounds of No. 4 Tactical Buck through it in about 1.5 – 2.0 seconds.
Someday, I would like to put together a “complete” collection of all the Model 1897 iterations to include one in each cataloged variation in all of the production series (pre-C, C, D, and E). This would include each of the following; Standard (Field grade), Brush Gun, Fancy, Black Diamond Trap, Tournament, Pigeon Gun, Riot Gun, and Trench Gun. I suspect that it would end up being more than (50) total pieces!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
Online
Bert-
I imagine that would be a pretty impressive collection! I’ve wanted an 1897 for awhile and will likely keep looking for better examples but this one is indeed fun. I took it out for a more comprehensive function test and wound up shooting a couple rounds of trap with it. It’s fun to shoot and other shooters always want to shoot it. Hard not to grin after breaking a bird or two with it. It’s not a trap gun but don’t tell all those broken birds, lol. I figure I’ll retire it after a round or two of skeet.
Mike
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