Log In
January 5, 2026
Offline
I have uploaded an image of a Simmons vent rib on a ~ 1935 28 gauge model 12 which shows the Simmons Gun Specialties marking in script. The image is at best poor as it only shows Simmons and Gun clearly. The marking on this rib is very difficult to see under normal light and I only recently observed its presence. This is the only script label on a rib from Simmons that I have observed.
jlb
December 25, 2016
Offline
Trap shooters will modify a nice shotgun at the drop of a proverbial hat, in hopes of shooting that same hat!
My 1918 LC Smith Specialty had an add on Walnut rib. The only one i have ever seen. It has since been removed. At least it was done nicely, but I would prefer no holes in it’s very unique first year floating rib. Amazing fit, over 100 years later and it still does not rattle.
I’ll count my blessings, that add on rib made for a great buy. I removed the ugly, it’s my back fence gun for games. Best trigger of any gun I’ve owned or shot, simplicity there is no safety.
A safety on a single barrel trap shotgun is as useless as teats on a boar hog.
January 5, 2026
Offline
Your comments about trapshooters is unfortunately fairly accurate. A good friend is in the process of purchasing a 30″ vent rib 21 Winchester Trap gun. This is a very nice gun with the exception of a white line recoil pad which infuriates my friend. “How could someone do that to a classic gun” is his last statement. I am sure that a new pad will be the order of the day when the purchase is completed.
jlb
December 25, 2016
Offline
Ugh, how 1968…..I’m no fan either. I’d want to know if the stock was cut for that bit of ugly. A Pachmayer leather covered old English would be nice on the gun. A less than experienced guy can easily change the pitch when cutting. Were it mine I would choose a good pad, I like about 9.5 lbs. and a good pad, or my current choice an old SX-1 The SX-1 could use a new pad it’s like a rock. Fortunately it does not NEED the pad, or I don’t. I can’t take the repeated recoil. Not since that pesky surgeon swiped most of my lobster tails. I had neck surgery about 4 years ago, I can finally ride my bicycle again, got rid of my motorcycle.
January 5, 2026
Offline
My friend seems to think that a leather pad would be great but the wear and tear of a trap gun would limit its life. Fortunately the pitch was not changed at least compared to my gun which is a mirror image of his soon to be gun.
December 25, 2016
Offline
Installing a new pad is not an ordeal. As long as the stock has not been cut it’s not an issue to return the gun to factory original. Of course always disclose any reproduction parts. Me, I’m usually a happy guy just adding the pad, I like a longer LOP, and I am a fairly big guy. Hey no one told me that getting older meant also getting shorter, I was darn near 6’2″ I’m just 6′ these days. I guess we shrink with age?
September 19, 2014
Offline
Better believe it! At one point on active duty I just was shy of 6′ 3 and 1/2″. BARELY make 6′ 1″ now. Plus I am told I will get even shorter. Part is longitudinal bones and joints compress, part is posture. So much to find out yet!! Makes a difference on length of pull to some extent. Tim
March 31, 2009
Offline
tim tomlinson said
Better believe it! At one point on active duty I just was shy of 6′ 3 and 1/2″. BARELY make 6′ 1″ now. Plus I am told I will get even shorter. Part is longitudinal bones and joints compress, part is posture. So much to find out yet!! Makes a difference on length of pull to some extent. Tim
Getting shorter is probably how I got wider.
September 19, 2014
Offline
Chuck, NO DOUBT! Me too……It all has to go somewhere. Comb height is affected if the face gets filled out a bit more,too. Tim
November 7, 2015
Offline
I was surprised to learn a few years ago that I am now 6’1″, down from 6’3″. I was 6’1″ when I got my drivers’ license at 16 and DPS never let me change it so I guess that worked out. No mystery about where it went. I prefer a shotgun with a bit shorter LOP than most folks would consider optimal for my arm length so all my standard length Citoris and Winchesters fit me just fine!
I had to replace the rubber recoil pad on my Y-Model 12 Trap to withstand Trap loads and the reproduction looks enough like the original to please me but to the astute collector is easy enough to spot. Easy repair if you’re careful and not in a hurry.
Mike
January 20, 2023
Offline
I can only assume that someone in authority at Winchester who did not shoot Skeet, decided the standard butt configuration for the Model 21 Skeet Gun would be the checkered Walnut butt its ownself, without a buttplate or pad.
Before 1947, the Skeet Gun also came standard with 26″ barrels, lengthened that year to 28″.
My own 12 gauge Skeet Gun was given a final inspection in March 1947 but has the earlier short barrels and letters at 7 pounds 6 ounces with 14″ pull to a checkered butt.
By the time it came to me in 2025, the checkered butt was gone, LOP still 14″ to a Pachmayr Old English recoil pad.
Having shot one round of Skeet with this gun using an ounce of #8 shot at 1350 foot seconds, I can tell you I have no desire to do that again. The idea of firing 200 such shells in an afternoon with this gun strikes me as nuts and doing the same thing with only a checkered wood butt in place as terminally stupid.
[This Skeet Gun is quite comfortable at Skeet using 7/8 ounce of shot at about 1000 foot seconds. Olin’s AA Low Recoil is a fine solution.]
My predecessor obviously thought so too and I owe him a debt of thanks for not installing a Whiteline ventilated pad.
The Old English pad is pretty soft but it isn’t Sorbothane. If I replaced it and Limbsaver still made a red version of their solid pad, I might use that. Otherwise, it would be Pachmayr’s Sorbothane Old English. 
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 5, 2026
Offline
I understand what you are saying with respect to the checkered butt on Skeet Winchester Model 21’s. However my 20 gauge does not seem to have a lot of recoil using 7/8 oz commercial shells at 1150-1200 fps. I really like the gun which has 28” skeet in/Skeet out barrels and a set of 28” M/F barrels. I am looking forward to hunting doves this fall and I wonder which barrels I will prefer. I told my model 21 friend that I was thinking of removing the checkered butt and I thought I was going to have to take him to the Heart Hospital. Tomorrow we are going to shoot five stand with Model 21’s designed for other uses. Bob will shoot his 16 gauge m/f gun and I will shoot a vent rib 12 gauge trap gun choked full and less full.
I will say that the longer stock on the trap gun feels better in many situations than the shorter stoked 20 gauge. There is however something special about the 20 gauge gun.
jlb
February 17, 2026
Offline
Ha-ha!! I can understand why your buddy almost had a heart attack when you told him you were going to remove the checkered butt on your 21, jib. I just spit my coffee all over my computer when I read that. I believe Bert H will agree. I wouldn’t destroy that gun by doing it, either. If you want to shoot doves there is this new thing out called a Remington 870. Try that for beating through the brush. Ha-ha! There are many people like myself who can shoot 1 1/8 oz.- 12 gauges all day with no pad and the recoil doesn’t’ bother us. I would definitely preserve that 21. That 12 gauge with a vented rib sure sounds nice. So, good luck with your shooting.
February 17, 2026
Offline
jlb said
My friend seems to think that a leather pad would be great but the wear and tear of a trap gun would limit its life. Fortunately the pitch was not changed at least compared to my gun which is a mirror image of his soon to be gun.
I put leather covered pads on shotguns all the time, jib. I use a KICK-EEZ pad that I buy from the company and cover it with leather. I have some that have been on my guns for more than 25 years with no problems. I am just gentle with them when I put them in a stand at the club and I store them muzzle end down in my safe. You shouldn’t have a problem with a leather covered pad. If you do tear the leather you can easily replace it. The KICK-EEZ pad will last forever. But, good luck.
February 17, 2022
Offline
Bill, I shot a LOT of sporting clays, both English and FITACS when I was younger. A lot of people I knew back then had their stocks done with out any recoil pad or butt plate, just checkered wood. Because you have to have a dismounted gun in those competitions and they felt the extra things would hang up in the vest and cause a poor shoulder mount of the gun.
1 Guest(s)
