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I saw a Winchester model 21 Trap Grade on consignment at local gunsmith shop.
January 8, 2019
9:07 pm
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model21guy said
Mike, Erin and Bert, you are all incorrect.  Pitch is not measured by Winchester in an angle by degrees, but in inches.  Cast and pitch are two different dimensions.  Pitch is the vertical angle of the butt measured in inches and is the distance in inches that the muzzle is from the wall when the butt is placed flat on the floor and the gun is slid into the wall at the receiver.  Cast is the horizontal distance from the center line of the stock at the butt from the center line of the rib.   Bert, examine any pre 1960 Winchester catalog and you will see that there are certainly standard stock dimensions for Model 21s.  Special dimensions could be ordered, but 21s were standard factory items with standard dimensions except in Custom models.  

Does anyone have the standard factory dimensions for the M21?? Thanks!

January 10, 2019
3:20 am
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Kingston, WA
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studdog said
I don't think the pre 1959 21's came out of the Custom shop but they all were basically hand made.  

Based on my examination of the Model 21 records at the CFM, all of the Model 21's were Custom Shop built guns... even the small number of standard guns that were built. None of them were ever built in the standard assembly lines.

Bert

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January 10, 2019
3:42 am
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model21guy said
Mike, Erin and Bert, you are all incorrect.  Pitch is not measured by Winchester in an angle by degrees, but in inches.  Cast and pitch are two different dimensions.  Pitch is the vertical angle of the butt measured in inches and is the distance in inches that the muzzle is from the wall when the butt is placed flat on the floor and the gun is slid into the wall at the receiver.  Cast is the horizontal distance from the center line of the stock at the butt from the center line of the rib.   Bert, examine any pre 1960 Winchester catalog and you will see that there are certainly standard stock dimensions for Model 21s.  Special dimensions could be ordered, but 21s were standard factory items with standard dimensions except in Custom models.  

Huh...??  I never stated that Pitch or Drop was measured as an angle, and I did not mention Cast what-so-ever.  In regards to standard stock dimensions, my statement was that there was not a "Standard" set of stock dimensions for the Model 21 was meant to infer that the dimensions were different for each of the many variations of the Model 21 (e.g. a Skeet Gun, a Duck Gun, a Trap Gun, etc.).

In regards to your statement "Special dimensions could be ordered, but 21s were standard factory items with standard dimensions except in Custom models." you are incorrect.  As I previously stated, the Model 21 was never a "standard factory item".  All of them were custom built guns.  As for "standard" stock dimensions being normal, I will strongly disagree with you.  Having spent a fair amount of time at Cody, and looking at the Model 21 records, I can assure you that that more than 50% of the Model 21 shotguns made had one or more of the dimensions custom ordered.  It was rare to find a record where it was noted "Std" in the stock dimension section of the build record.

Bert

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January 10, 2019
2:38 pm
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I've since research old Model 21 ads and indeed they consistently list factory LOP's of 14" for Field and Skeet, 14 3/8" Trap, 13 5/8" for Duck. Of course customization can be had a well.

Another question. I know its personal preference, but what butt plate is considered most desirable to collectors - Recoil Pad, Composition, or my favorite, the checkered wood???

January 10, 2019
6:00 pm
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foxfire said

Another question. I know its personal preference, but what butt plate is considered most desirable to collectors - Recoil Pad, Composition, or my favorite, the checkered wood???  

I suspect that if you asked three different collectors, you might get three different answers. Based on pure numbers, the black hard rubber butt plate is much more common. One could surmise that it was the preferred butt plate.

Bert

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January 11, 2019
3:23 am
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I’d prefer the hard rubber because the soft rubber recoil pad deteriorates and detracts from the gun’s appearance. It can also be easily removed and replaced (temporarily) with a recoil pad if you want a bit longer length of pull or less felt recoil.

 

Mike

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