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Help identifying Winchester model
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August 17, 2022 - 5:05 pm
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Hi there I’ve got a model 12 I’m eyeing but trying to decide if it’s a fake or not. The guy says it’s a 1922 super field but I can’t find any info going back that far. I’ve asked for better pictures and waiting for a reply but he says it’s got a solid rib with 2 ivory beads.

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August 17, 2022 - 6:51 pm
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Two models in the 1925 catalog resemble this gun, Trap Grade & Tournament Grade.  No mention of ivory beads, but I’d be surprised if that wasn’t an option.  No mention of a “Super Field” model either.

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August 17, 2022 - 7:38 pm
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clarence said
Two models in the 1925 catalog resemble this gun, Trap Grade & Tournament Grade.  No mention of ivory beads, but I’d be surprised if that wasn’t an option.  No mention of a “Super Field” model either.

  

Thanks for the help! Both of those would have been clearly marked such on the receiver correct? 

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August 17, 2022 - 9:13 pm
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Remington Ping said

  Thanks for the help! Both of those would have been clearly marked such on the receiver correct? 

  

Not on the rcvr., but possibly on the brl.–I don’t really know.

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August 17, 2022 - 9:52 pm
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According to the Dave Riffle “Model 12 Book”, the “Super Grade Field Gun” was introduced about 1955.  Everyone was wanting vent rib barrels and Winchester had lot of solid rib barrels on hand.  The “Super Field” stock and slide handle wood were upgraded and checked to help sales of the lagging solid rib barrels.  Your gun may or may not be marked “TRAP” in the area of the serial number.  A “Tournament Trap” model was also available during the time your handsome Model 12 was made.  RDB

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August 17, 2022 - 11:52 pm
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rogertherelic said
According to the Dave Riffle “Model 12 Book”, the “Super Grade Field Gun” was introduced about 1955.

  

But if his was built in 1922, it can’t be one of those.

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August 18, 2022 - 1:27 am
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So asides from a letter from the Cody museum is there any defining factors that would indicate it left Winchester in that configuration? Would that recoil pad be time correct? It is a Winchester marked pad 

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August 18, 2022 - 1:53 am
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I believe that model 12’s are serial number only from Cody- don’t think configuration is available.run the serial number in the ‘what year was your Winchester made’ on this website and see what year it comes back, that should give you a good start and seeing what its all about.

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August 18, 2022 - 2:08 am
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Remington Ping said
 Would that recoil pad be time correct? It is a Winchester marked pad 

  

Very possibly, because a customer who ordered two ivory beads might well have ordered the pad.

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August 18, 2022 - 2:10 am
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I know this is a bit of a loaded question but any questimates on what I should be expecting to give for a questionable shotgun originality in its condition? 

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August 18, 2022 - 3:34 am
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Remington Ping said
I know this is a bit of a loaded question but any questimates on what I should be expecting to give for a questionable shotgun originality in its condition? 

  

Yes, it is difficult to answer without better pics. It has features of a Trap model but I’m unaware of a “Super Field” model in this time period. Looks like a very nice shotgun. I’d be tempted to offer $1,000 for an 80% gun. 

 

Mike

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August 18, 2022 - 2:46 pm
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I have a reprint 1923 WINCHESTER Product Catalog.  The graphics aren’t good enough to scan and reproduce on the Forum.  The “Tournament Grade” Model 12 has very similar stocks and checking style.  All the “TRAP” models are pictured with the “English” or straight stocks.  The Winchester “Red” recoil pad was introduced in 1922.  RDB

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August 18, 2022 - 4:45 pm
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rogertherelic said
I have a reprint 1923 WINCHESTER Product Catalog.  The graphics aren’t good enough to scan and reproduce on the Forum.  The “Tournament Grade” Model 12 has very similar stocks and checking style.  All the “TRAP” models are pictured with the “English” or straight stocks.  The Winchester “Red” recoil pad was introduced in 1922.  RDB

  

Oh thanks! The tournament shows with a pistol grip stock? Did those not get black Diamonds inlay? 

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August 18, 2022 - 6:39 pm
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Remington Ping said

Oh thanks! The tournament shows with a pistol grip stock? Did those not get black Diamonds inlay? 

  

In my ’25 catalog, both Trap & Tournament are shown with straight-grip stocks.  Reading descriptions, only diff I see is that the Trap stocks were all hand-made & would be built to customer’s specs at no extra charge; maybe this is what the black diamond signified.  Suspect it could also be had with a PG, if that’s what was ordered, but that would be unusual for any trap gun.

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August 19, 2022 - 2:46 am
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Tournament grade had less and simpler checking patterns on the stock and slide handle. They were only marked “TOURNAMENT” under the butt plate or pad. I personally find the subdued pistol grip very elegant and sleek looking. RDB

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August 19, 2022 - 3:44 am
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So we’re leaning towards this either being a custom order then or something someone has pieced together over the years? Trying to setup a meeting with the fella but afraid of over spending on it 

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August 19, 2022 - 1:30 pm
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What’s the S/N?

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August 19, 2022 - 1:48 pm
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Remington Ping said
So we’re leaning towards this either being a custom order then or something someone has pieced together over the years? Trying to setup a meeting with the fella but afraid of over spending on it 

  

No reason to suspect it’s been “pieced together,” but I wouldn’t waste my time with a seller who hasn’t provided at least a ball-park price, & if he has, what is it?  If doesn’t really know what he wants for it, tell him to call you back when he does.  Options like the pad & beads were not uncommon, esp. on skeet & trap guns.

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August 19, 2022 - 4:16 pm
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He wants $600 for it. I talked to my lgs and their value book is older but they thought if it wasn’t one of the special packages it was a $500 gun. Serial number the fella gave me was 2922XX

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August 19, 2022 - 4:28 pm
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Remington Ping said
He wants $600 for it. I talked to my lgs and their value book is older but they thought if it wasn’t one of the special packages it was a $500 gun. Serial number the fella gave me was 2922XX

  

Buy it, then resell it for $1000 to TxGun Nut!  But the seller is not unreasonable, as many are–$600 seems a fair price to me, but it wouldn’t hurt to offer (politely) $500 first.  If the recoil pad is cracked or crumbling, which is often the problem with pads this old, I’d use that to bargain.  Repro pads are available, but having them fitted is a hassle.

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