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1951 Model 97 riot gun used by the Detroit Police Department. DPD stamped on the receiver behind the trigger.
JC
Per the original Winchester records (Polishing Room), your Model 97 was actually manufactured early in the year 1944, shortly after Winchester had finished making Riot and Trench Guns for the U.S. military contracts.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks Bert – I must have searched a serial number to a different model
JC
[email protected] said
Thanks Bert – I must have searched a serial number to a different modelJC
In my collection I have a 1943 vintage M97 Trenchgun. It is marked JPD 6 under the pistol grip. Very small letters. No one seems to know what PD had it. They never used it as the gun is 99% and unfired. Big Larry
My Detroit Police 1897 take down riot MFG 1944. This 1897 was issued to the Harbor Master Bureau. It came from the curator of the Detroit Police museum and chief historian for the Detroit Police. If anybody knows of anymore DPD marked shotguns or handguns let me know. I really want to find one of the DPD marked trenchguns. My father just retired from DPD after 45 years we have about 35 different Detroit marked firearms.
aerojoe said
My Detroit Police 1897 take down riot MFG 1944. This 1897 was issued to the Harbor Master Bureau. It came from the curator of the Detroit Police museum and chief historian for the Detroit Police. If anybody knows of anymore DPD marked shotguns or handguns let me know. I really want to find one of the DPD marked trenchguns. My father just retired from DPD after 45 years we have about 35 different Detroit marked firearms.
Interesting Riot Gun. I have a lot of Model 1897/97 Riot Guns listed in my research survey.
It is interesting that you state it was manufactured in 1944. Very few Model 97s were manufactured in that year (3,160), all in the 965000 – 968160 serial number range. For my research survey, would you please provide me with the serial number on your Model 97 Riot Gun.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
aerojoe said
My Detroit Police 1897 take down riot MFG 1944. This 1897 was issued to the Harbor Master Bureau. It came from the curator of the Detroit Police museum and chief historian for the Detroit Police. If anybody knows of anymore DPD marked shotguns or handguns let me know. I really want to find one of the DPD marked trenchguns. My father just retired from DPD after 45 years we have about 35 different Detroit marked firearms.
Interesting Riot Gun. I have a lot of Model 1897/97 Riot Guns listed in my research survey.
It is interesting that you state it was manufactured in 1944. Very few Model 97s were manufactured in that year (3,160), all in the 965000 – 968160 serial number range. For my research survey, would you please provide me with the serial number on your Model 97 Riot Gun.
Bert
I looked at 2 sites oldguns.net says 1951 and Winchestercollector.org said 1944 so not sure which is right the serial #966731
aerojoe said
I looked at 2 sites oldguns.net says 1951 and Winchestercollector.org said 1944 so not sure which is right the serial #966731
Oldguns.net is not accurate. Your Model 97 was manufactured in February 1944 (as was the other Detroit PD Riot Gun that started this topic string). Apparently the Detroit PD ordered and purchased an unknown quantity of them during the latter part of WW II. Does the Detroit PD have any historical records of these guns in their Armory records?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Oldguns.net is not accurate. Your Model 97 was manufactured in February 1944 (as was the other Detroit PD Riot Gun that started this topic string). Apparently the Detroit PD ordered and purchased an unknown quantity of them during the latter part of WW II. Does the Detroit PD have any historical records of these guns in their Armory records?
Bert
Detroit has records all the way back to 1870’s when they started issuing Dept guns I own the 293 and 143 gun ever issued by DPD they were Merwin hulberts. However the shotgun book has gone missing years ago probably after Detroit sold the 1897’s to Century arms in the early 90’s. BTW the majority of the DPD 97’s were actual trench guns with bayonet lugs and heatshields I really want to find one of those for my DPD collection.
Online
Interesting topic. I have heard of trench guns going to the civilian market but this is the first I have seen. It is going to be hard to find what you are looking for. An original trench gun is hard to find let alone one that has the DPD stamp.
aerojoe said
Some pictures of Detroit with 1897 Trench guns in use
I haven’t seen much news about the current weaponry used by the Detroit Police. But would imagine, they don’t “Affix Bayonets” any longer!
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick said
aerojoe said
Some pictures of Detroit with 1897 Trench guns in use
I haven’t seen much news about the current weaponry used by the Detroit Police. But would imagine, they don’t “Affix Bayonets” any longer!
Maverick
Standard issue is M&P .40 they are going to start a change over to M&P 9mm as soon as funds for ammunition is available. Long gun wise is M&P15’s and Remington 870’s. The M&P15’s i believe have a bayonet lug but yes probably frowned upon in today’s world
aerojoe said
Standard issue is M&P .40 they are going to start a change over to M&P 9mm as soon as funds for ammunition is available. Long gun wise is M&P15’s and Remington 870’s. The M&P15’s i believe have a bayonet lug but yes probably frowned upon in today’s world
Why in the world would they want to downsize from the .40 to the 9mm?
I’ve always been told the meth heads, crack heads, and PCP types respond much better to a .45 Caliber anyway. And with the 9mm they like to keep on trucking towards you with the kitchen knife in hand to cut your jugular even after you unload the clip into them. But what did I know, I’m not in law enforcement.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Maverick said
Why in the world would they want to downsize from the .40 to the 9mm?
Sincerely,
Maverick
Because the cops of today can’t handle the recoil as well especially on follow up shots. Military did the same thing when they went to the 9 mm. It has been proven in combat that you need a 45 to stop people quickly. A 40 S&W is a good stopper too. I’m sure there is a cost element here too.
Chuck said
Because the cops of today can’t handle the recoil as well especially on follow up shots. Military did the same thing when they went to the 9 mm. It has been proven in combat that you need a 45 to stop people quickly. A 40 S&W is a good stopper too. I’m sure there is a cost element here too.
The U.S. Military did not make the switch to 9mm because of recoil concerns. They did it because the 9mm was/is the primary NATO round, and ammo is a lot easier to procure. The U.S. Navy Submarine Fleet was the last military group to give up the Model 1911A1 handguns. We still had them in our Small Arms inventory in the mid 1990s. I did not have to qualify with the Beretta M9 until late 1996.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Chuck said
Interesting topic. I have heard of trench guns going to the civilian market but this is the first I have seen. It is going to be hard to find what you are looking for. An original trench gun is hard to find let alone one that has the DPD stamp.
They actually come up here and there for auction the problem is it always seems to happen when I have other things more important to spend money on and they don’t go cheap.
Chuck said
Because the cops of today can’t handle the recoil as well especially on follow up shots. Military did the same thing when they went to the 9 mm. It has been proven in combat that you need a 45 to stop people quickly. A 40 S&W is a good stopper too. I’m sure there is a cost element here too.
Yes that is a big reason is the younger officers can’t handle the .40 but not the only reason. The ammunition technology in the last 10-15 years has made the 9mm finally a good performing round Federal HST and Speer Gold dot G2 have come a long way. The other reason is 9mm is just cheaper figure $5 a box cheaper that is a lot cheaper when you figure DPD has 2000 officers that have to qualify twice a year. The other theory is the M&P 9 hold 2 more rounds so the officer will carry 6 extra rds.
November 7, 2015
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Maverick said
Why in the world would they want to downsize from the .40 to the 9mm?
I’ve always been told the meth heads, crack heads, and PCP types respond much better to a .45 Caliber anyway. And with the 9mm they like to keep on trucking towards you with the kitchen knife in hand to cut your jugular even after you unload the clip into them. But what did I know, I’m not in law enforcement.
Sincerely,
Maverick
Quite honestly the 9mm is probably a very good round given today’s technology and bullet design. OTOH 35+ yrs ago I was carrying handloaded 9mm ammo as a peace officer when factory ammo did not meet my requirements. In my later years I carried a 1911 .45 (still do!) but would feel well armed with 9mm or .40 and appropriate ammo. Two in the chest, one in the head, problem solved.
Mike
Bert H. said
The U.S. Military did not make the switch to 9mm because of recoil concerns. They did it because the 9mm was/is the primary NATO round, and ammo is a lot easier to procure. The U.S. Navy Submarine Fleet was the last military group to give up the Model 1911A1 handguns. We still had them in our Small Arms inventory in the mid 1990s. I did not have to qualify with the Beretta M9 until late 1996.
Bert
Bert, you’re right. I was being a bit of a smart a**.
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