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Couple of Model 12 Questions
December 29, 2018
3:33 pm
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Southwestern PA
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Hello to the board - hope everyone's enjoying the holidays.

I'm looking at a "made over" Model 12 that someone had fixed up for trap shooting. It's been restocked and now sports a 32" "Full" barrel.

For those of you who are more knowledgeable that I (which means just about all of you), please take a look at these images at the two links and let me know whether this looks like a Winchester factory rib or an after-market one.

TIA,

Tom

Model 12 Rib 

Model 12 Rib #2

December 29, 2018
6:39 pm
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Serial number and a few more pics may help; it doesn’t look like my 1977 vintage Model 12 Trap rib. Trap shooters have a tendency to “make over” their competition guns but as you may be aware Winchester made a Trap model.

 

Mike

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December 29, 2018
7:43 pm
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One sure way to distinguish a factory rib, is to see if the proof mark has been stamped to the left of the rib. The proofs are normally on the top and an added rib would cover the proofs, something Winchester never did.   Big Larry

December 29, 2018
7:45 pm
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Thanks, Mike -- I don't have this piece in hand -- am only contemplating buying it (to shoot trap with). I'm told the serial number is in the 1948xxx range (1962?). I do have a few other images -- what would help?

Thanks.

December 29, 2018
8:16 pm
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Tom,

Serial number 1948000 was manufactured in March 1963. Like Larry mentioned, look for the Winchester proof mark on the barrel... it should be marked just below the left side of the rib near the take down extension.

Bert

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December 29, 2018
8:27 pm
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Southwestern PA
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Well, I just committed to buy this piece, so should have it in hand in 10 days or two weeks.

Here's a link to an image of the barrel markings.

Barrel Markings

It's hard to see in this image -- is that maybe a proof mark above the word "FULL"?

I'll post better images once I have the gun in hand.

Thanks again,

Tom

December 29, 2018
8:35 pm
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Tom,

I do not see a proof mark stamp above the choke marking?  I also noticed that it was a NICKEL STEEL barrel... those were discontinued in 1931, and the serial number makes it a 1963 vintage gun.  It appears that this is a Frankenchester shotgun.

Bert

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December 29, 2018
9:23 pm
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Thanks, Bert -- I'm sure you're correct. I'll know more when I have it in hand.

I just hope it breaks birds!

December 30, 2018
5:00 am
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tom in pittsburgh said
Thanks, Bert -- I'm sure you're correct. I'll know more when I have it in hand.

I just hope it breaks birds!  

I’ve read that some of the aftermarket rib installers would stamp “proof marks”. I love shooting trap with my old Model 12 Trap guns. Those full chokes absolutely “smoke” birds out past 40 yards and look good doing it! 

The 725 is my regular trap gun, the 12’s are my “fun” guns. I will say the 12’s improve my game and if the 101 year old Black Diamond Trap gun fit me a bit better it would be my primary trap gun. 

A good friend who regularly shoots trap with custom Perazzi’s fell in love with my Black Diamond Trap last week, I think he’s ordered a release trigger for it. 😉

 

Mike

 

589D6233-E41F-435E-BDD5-37B586704989.jpegImage Enlarger

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
December 30, 2018
3:49 pm
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Thanks, Mike - I know what you mean. I shoot my Model 1897 Trap Gun weekly in our club's Fall / Winter Trap League. I'm not that good - the gun is certainly a better shooter than I am!

This past Thursday evening a fellow shooter on my squad quipped that he "didn't know it was antique night." I asked him if he meant me or my gunKiss

Anyway, mine is a nice old 1902 vintage. As you can see from the below image (taken during a disassembly / cleaning session), the pull dimension was lengthened at some time in the past by the addition of a spacer. Standard 30" full choke barrel. Only the receiver on my gun is matted, not the top of the barrel. It's also never been reblued/refinished. I shoot mostly Federal paper/Red Dot handloads at 16 yards.

I don't have a back-up trap gun, which is one reason I'm getting the Model 12 "Frankenchester" trap gun. I would like one of those Model 12 Black Diamonds like yours, but my retirement budget won't currently support my pricey wish list. Frown This new piece has a 32" full choke barrel equipped with one of those new-fangled ventilated ribs and two (!) beadsWink And even though it's "newer," it's still at least 55 years old -- and it's my first Model 12! (Not sure how I'll deal with not having that hammer Confused )

Model 1897 DisassembledImage Enlarger

Thanks,

Tom

December 30, 2018
5:17 pm
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Nice 97, Tom. My Black Diamond was actually pretty affordable, big box store didn’t know what it was. It’s stock is a bit short as well but the slip-on pad and spacer help with that.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
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