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Model 12 vs. Model 31
May 23, 2012
5:43 pm
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May 23, 2012
7:29 pm
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No comparison in my opinion... the Winchester Model 12 beats the Remingtom Model 31 hands down.

Bert

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May 24, 2012
1:32 am
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I know this is the wrong forum for m31 boosters,
but I am a bit curious about +'s & -'s . I have them both as well,
and love them of course.
So, please explain in detail as far as you can, Bert.
Respectfully, Anders

October 30, 2012
3:05 pm
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I am prejudiced- as I own and shoot 7 pre-1950 Model 12's-- answer your question this way-- The Model 1912 came out in 1912- the 12 and 16 gauges in 1914, they changed the letter stamping from Model 1912 to Model 12 in 1919- same gun,- was made even through the way years (WW1 and WW2) up to 1963- when did the Remington M31 come on the market and how long did it last-- They don't call the Model 12 the "Perfect repeater" for nothing- and then lump in the clones- the Model 12 featherweight and the Model 25, and the post 1970 Y-series--all the same basic receiver and action parts- Model 12 Winchesters are akin to Colt's SAA 1973 revolvers and Springfield M1903 30-06 BA rifles (and the pre-1964 Model 54 and 70's as well-) timeless, ultra reliable, little maintenance required- an American classic

"Here's lookin' at you, kid!"

March 22, 2013
12:33 am
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I can produce a gentlemens argument. I don't have my books in front of me but i will recollect the best i can..

1915- John Browning, Jon Pedersen produce the Rem Mod 17

1931- Browning, Pedersen redesign the mod 17 to side eject to compete with the Win Mod12.

1919-1921- Ithaca waited for Mod 17 patents to expire. Later realizing Pedersens patents wouldn't expire until 1937.

1937- Ithaca mod 37 is born (previously Remingtons mod 17)

Not to say the mod 12 isn't brilliant but for 76yrs and counting, The Ithaca mod 37 has been produced longer than any other shotgun in american history.

To answer your question Rem mod 31 was produced 18yrs until 1949 I believe
When it was replaced by the mod 870 in 1950. Making the 870 the second longest production shotgun in american history at 63 years and counting. The mod12 was produced for 51years

being a lefty, i have a soft spot for those bottom-eject shotguns

March 22, 2013
1:24 am
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My apologies for a typo. the 1919-1921 should read 1929-1931

March 22, 2013
1:44 pm
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How long was the Auto 5 produced?

1905-1998 so wouldn't that make it the longest production Shotgun 93 years

the Ithica Model 37 paused production during WWII and in 2005 while the company changed hands.

The model 37 is the longest production PUMP shotgun. But has a few decades to catch up the the Auto 5.

March 22, 2013
4:19 pm
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I was referencing from the top of my head. but in terms of pump shotguns Ithaca mod 37 is the longest production AMERICAN pump shotgun. I emphasize american because i know browning is no longer american. might as well subtract the years they were built in Belgium. where does that put the real age of the auto 5 being american made? Just some food for thought

March 22, 2013
4:43 pm
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I took a moment to wiki the browning auto 5 turns out it was only american made during WW2. The remington 11 (copy of browning a5) was produced 1905-1948 43yrs. the browning auto 5 was sold to FN to be built in belgium in the later years some a5s wete even built in china. Since i now know for fact. the browning auto 5 was american made less than a decade. Putting the Ithaca baxk on top.

March 22, 2013
9:35 pm
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Ken S. said
I took a moment to wiki the browning auto 5 turns out it was only american made during WW2. The remington 11 (copy of browning a5) was produced 1905-1948 43yrs. the browning auto 5 was sold to FN to be built in belgium in the later years some a5s wete even built in china. Since i now know for fact. the browning auto 5 was american made less than a decade. Putting the Ithaca baxk on top.

Ken,

You should not rely on "Wiki" as an accurate source of information. There are a lot of errors in your last reply.

The Browning Auto-5 was manufactured in Belgium from 1903 through 1940, and then from 1946 - 1974. In 1975, production of the Auto-5 was transferred to Miroku Japan. During WW II (1940 - 1945), Remington manufactured the "American" Browning Auto-5. No Auto-5 shotguns were ever built in China.

The Remington Model 11 was not the first "copy" of the Browning Auto-5. That distinction belongs to the Remington Auto Loader (the predecessor to the Model 11), manufactured 1905 - 1910. The Remington Auto Loader and Model 11 were made under license using Browning's Patent, and they are not "copies".

Production of the Auto-5 ended in 1998.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
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March 22, 2013
9:38 pm
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In regards to the original Model 1912/12, it was manufactured from August 6th, 1912 to May 28th, 1964.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
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March 22, 2013
11:34 pm
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My apologies for the discrepancies. your accurate timeline puts the auto 5s production in america to only 5 years.

So that puts the Ithaca model 37 at around 72 years american made and counting
the model 1912 at almost 52 years
the model 870 at 63 years and counting
The model 31 at about 18 years
the model auto 5 at 5 years.
the model 11 at around 48 years

so its still correct to say the longest american produced shotgun is the Ithaca model 37?

I put the Ithaca at 72 years instead of 76 years due to production halts during ww2 and the move from NY to OH

March 23, 2013
6:28 am
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Longevity certainly indicates a guns popularity and reliability, but production numbers (i.e. sales) also come into play.

March 23, 2013
7:55 am
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oakridge said
Longevity certainly indicates a guns popularity and reliability, but production numbers (i.e. sales) also come into play.

Yes, and I think the 870 maybe at the top

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