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1897 Brush model
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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10604
April 10, 2015 - 3:20 pm

1This post is pinned sp_QuotePost

jlinz said

Bert,

Did Winchester make the 97 Brush model in a 16 ga?

Yes, but they are relatively rare. 

This is what is known;

1.  1,024,701 Model 1893 and 1897 shotguns were manufactured.

2. Of the above total, 34,177 were Model 1893s, and 990,524 were Model 1897s.

If you use the current statisical numbers in my research survey, this is what comes out of the number crunching machine;

1. Based on my survey results, 14.2% of the 990,524 total Model 1897s were 16-gauge, which comes out to 140,620 16-ga guns for all variations.

2. Again based on my survey results, just 2.78% of all 990,524 Model 1897s are Brush Guns, which comes out to a total of 27,561.

3. If you apply the 14.2% 16-gauge production number to the 27,561 Brush Gun total, that would indicate that just 3,914 16-ga Brush Guns were made, or just 0.395% of the total Model 1897 production.

Most people would consider that to be a very small number. The only questionable part of the equation, is just how accurate are my survey results? I have recorded five 16-ga Model 1897 Brush Guns made in 16-ga thus far. Do you have one?  If so, what is the serial number on it (so that I can add it to my survey document).

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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United States
Posts: 6
April 5, 2015 - 2:45 pm

2sp_QuotePost

What are specs. of a 1897/97 Brush model?  Are there any barrel markings to indicate whether it is a Brush model?  My 97 has a 26″ CYL bore barrel.

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10604
April 5, 2015 - 9:07 pm

3sp_QuotePost

The 26″ CYL bore barrel is what identifies it as a Brush Gun. No, they were not externally marked.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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United States
Posts: 6
April 5, 2015 - 9:27 pm

4sp_QuotePost

Thanks Bert, Do you know if the Brush guns are more or less valuable than a standard model?  Mine has an E above the SN, does that have any significance?

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10604
April 5, 2015 - 11:24 pm

5sp_QuotePost

The Brush Guns are worth approximately 50% more than a standard grade gun in identical condition. The “E” above the serial number does not have much significance. It only identifies the specific parts and steps needed to assemble it. The vast majority of the Model 1897/97 shotguns were “E” series guns.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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United States
Posts: 6
April 7, 2015 - 1:35 pm

6sp_QuotePost

Did Winchester keep records on how many Brush guns were made?  When did they drop them from their product line?  My Brush model is SN E-803255.Kiss

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10604
April 7, 2015 - 6:56 pm

7sp_QuotePost

Unfortunately, No, there are no surviving records that can tell us how many Brush Guns were made. Based on my research survey, approximately 3% of the total production were Brush Guns (approximately 30,000).  I believe that Winchester cataloged them up to WW II.  Is the slide bar on your gun marked with the Model number?

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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United States
Posts: 6
April 7, 2015 - 7:05 pm

8sp_QuotePost

Hi Bert, no there are no markings on the slide bar, it’s all on the barrel.

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10604
April 7, 2015 - 7:46 pm

9sp_QuotePost

Based on the serial number, your Brush Gun was manufactured in the summer of 1925.  Your Model 97 is the earliest serial number I have recorded that does not have the Model designation on the slide bar.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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United States
Posts: 6
April 10, 2015 - 12:35 pm

10sp_QuotePost

Bert,

Did Winchester make the 97 Brush model in a 16 ga?

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10604
April 10, 2015 - 3:40 pm

11sp_QuotePost

jlinz said

Bert,

Did Winchester make the 97 Brush model in a 16 ga?

See the first message in this topic string.

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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United States
Posts: 6
April 10, 2015 - 6:09 pm

12sp_QuotePost

Bert,

No I do not have a 16 ga Brush model but should I be lucky enough to find one, I’ll be most happy to provide the info. for your survey.

Thanks Jim

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jim berry
May 30, 2015 - 4:18 am

13sp_QuotePost

jlinz said

Bert,

Did Winchester make the 97 Brush model in a 16 ga?

bert I have a16 gauge win 1897 brush gun has 26 inch barrel #146955 if my search is correct it dates production around 1901 it is in great condition and all original jim

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10604
May 30, 2015 - 9:25 pm

14sp_QuotePost

Jim,

The serial number identifies it as a September 1901 production gun.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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Northwestern Ontario
Posts: 298
March 19, 2017 - 6:40 pm

15sp_QuotePost

Flipping through the forum subjects on a lazy Sunday afternoon I was drawn to this discussion about “Brush” gun Model 1897 shotguns. I own a Model 1897 TRAP gun (Black Diamond) take down that has a two barrel set with both serial numbers the same and matching the frame. One barrel set is a “30 Full” and the other is a 26″ Cyl. Does this 26″Cyl.  barrel qualify the gun as a ” Brush” gun as well as a TRAP gun? Serial Number is a “C over 136650. The gun is in very good condition overall with the barrel sets 90% blue but dull somewhat brownish in appearance, magazine tube shinier blue with shiny metal from the slide, frame is unpitted but shiny with traces of maybe 10% blue on left side the ejection port side polished and no blue , the stock wood has been lightly sanded and vanished with light checkering remaining while the 27″  of the pump handle is original with excellent checkering and the  30” possibly light sanded and varnished with good checkering. The butt plate is original  think the gun was probably used primarily with the “3 barrel. The action is tight and the bores are shiny.What would be an approximate value with this combination. I will try to post photos.

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10604
March 19, 2017 - 6:59 pm

16sp_QuotePost

If the bolt is marked “TRAP GUN“, the answer is No, it is not a “Brush” gun.  Instead, it is simply a special order Black Diamond Trap Gun.  Can you post pictures of it?  Better yet, send them to me full size.

Bert – [email protected]

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
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Northwestern Ontario
Posts: 298
March 19, 2017 - 7:07 pm

17sp_QuotePost

Bert, Thanks, the bolt is marked “TRAP”. It has the black diamond inserts in the stock. I like the feel and balance better with the 26″ barrel than either when the 30″ is attached or my other 1897 Riot gun. 

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10604
March 19, 2017 - 11:13 pm

18sp_QuotePost

Does your Model 1897 have a straight grip butt stock and a hard rubber butt plate?

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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mike smith
October 22, 2017 - 1:57 pm

19sp_QuotePost

I have found one with serial #674479 at Cabelas $629.

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Kingston, WA
Posts: 10604
October 22, 2017 - 4:34 pm

20sp_QuotePost

mike smith said
I have found one with serial #674479 at Cabelas $629.  

Mike,

Is it a Brush Gun, or a standard Field grade gun?  What is the barrel length and the choke marking?

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

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