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Thousands of antique Winchesters Brownings and Marlin's to be sent for destruction!
April 11, 2019
9:25 pm
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Following the tragic shooting event at the Christchurch mosques a few weeks ago, the New Zealand authorities have passed new legislation that will effectively see many if not all repeating rifles be destroyed.

It was first tabled that all “semi-automatic military style” rifles were to be banned from private ownership. It basically targeted the AR platform, with high capacity mags. The same that was used in the mosque shootings.

Riding on a wave of public outrage and shock over the shootings, the government decided to take as much as they could from the shooting community. They said all rifles which take magazines, suppressors, and so on. The cost to the hunting community would have been devastating, and the buy-back would have cost the taxpayer well over a billion dollars. For our small country, that amount of money is unthinkable. So, then we heard that it would just restrict magazine capacity to 5 rounds. Also, suppressors for bolt actions were still allowed.

The worst thing being, this also applies to tubular fixed magazines on full bore rifles, and all .22’s to a maximum capacity of 10 rounds.

So, with one foul swoop, they have placed most of our antique Winchesters, Brownings Marlin's etc, into the same category as an AR-15.

The irony is, I have a .338 Lapua with a 5rnd mag, a Nightforce scope, tripod and suppressor which remains legal. However, by comparison, my benign collection of Winchester .22 “gallery” rifles, are since yesterday, banned weapons, and are destined for the crusher. I kid you not!

Oh, my .22 Ruger 10-22 which I take out with me along with a pocketful of loaded 10 rnd mags when I go bunny busting, is okay too. Apparently, the old Winchesters are much more dangerous and have a greater firepower, and could be used as weapons of a terror attack.

Bottom line here, I’m devastated. Truely and utterly devastated. Madness has griped our country, and our lawmakers have no compassion, no sense of reason whatsoever. The spite and venom poured out onto the shooting community has been so apparent, you could be forgiven to think that in some way, we were all responsible for the mosque massacres.  You would think we all had a hand in planning them.

If this wasnt all, we have had to witness in some parts of NZ, the cancellation of Anzac day. The one day a year where the thousands of soldiers who died, are remembered for their bravery and their sacrifice. The reason? Well, because the authorities, the same authorities who are about to take and destroy our collections, couldn’t “guarantee” the safety of those of us who wanted to pay our respects. Meanwhile however, there are armed police standing outside mosques here, to protect those who want to visit or attend prayers.

 

Please forgive me if this sounds off topic, and it’s not my intention to turn this into either a religious rant, or indeed a political one as such. I’m just simply pouring out my feelings, and I want to share with you all the sadness I feel each day, knowing that in the next few weeks I have to make the journey to the police station to hand over my collection to be crushed.

 

I would hope that some of you good people reading this would forward it on, pass it around, and help highlight the true injustice and wrongness of what I, and many others like me are facing, knowing that the love, the time, the expense and sacrifices we have made over the years, in looking after historical treasures, has all been for naught.

Maybe, just MAYBE if we had support from angry overseas historians and curators, we could get the situation resolved? I dont know, but I'm pleading with you guys, help us save our guns, for god sake.

 

Thank you all.

God bless.

April 11, 2019
10:50 pm
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 Could you not  take the magazine apart and plug it, so it will not take any more than the number of cartridges allowed?

 

   Just like waterfowl hunting repeater shotguns, can only hold three shells in the chamber and magazine combined.So a plug is used to make shotguns legal for waterfowl hunting,that can hold more than three shells.Smile

April 11, 2019
11:31 pm
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New Zealand
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28 gauge said
 Could you not  take the magazine apart and plug it, so it will not take any more than the number of cartridges allowed?

 

   Just like waterfowl hunting repeater shotguns, can only hold three shells in the chamber and magazine combined.So a plug is used to make shotguns legal for waterfowl hunting,that can hold more than three shells.Smile  

Thats an option for some of the lever guns, however, the 1890's and 1906's are not as straight forward. Also, it depends again on the wording of the act, and how "they" want to interpret it. Look, pretty much the thing they are trying to do is just take and destroy as much as they can, irrespective of age, historical vale or whatever. Our Prime Minister hates guns or anyone who uses them. It's obvious to a blind man. She's using this as an excuse to disarm the country as much as possible. It isn't affordable to do it in one go, so they are doing it in stages. Pistols later on in the year.... then who knows what!

If I wasnt too old, I'd be up for leaving the bloody place. All this because of one man's act, and one woman's resolve.

April 12, 2019
1:28 am
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Very sad. Seems the “never waste a tragedy” mindset knows no borders. 

 

Mike

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April 12, 2019
3:50 am
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If it can happen in New Zealand, it certainly can happen in the United States of America. As beautiful of a country New Zealand is, I do believe I'd up and leave in a heart beat. A dam shame to say to the least.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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April 12, 2019
1:31 pm
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NE OREGON
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The lady that's running New Zealand and the fine Governor of the State of Oregon sound like sisters. Born and raised here, but have seriously considered leaving because of all the liberalism and craziness in this State. It is amazing how fast things can change. Peter

April 12, 2019
6:04 pm
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Steve 1890;

  Please allow me add my 2 cents in for what it's worth. Here's a tale as told to me by a friend that was an agent of the FBI a number of years ago. 

  A Smith & Wesson .357 magnum was recovered by an Eastern Police department (I won't give the actual name of the organization) after an armed robbery. It went into the Property Room to be held as evidence. One year later this same revolver is recovered in a Washington D.C. shooting. Once again into the Property Room of the local P.D. Time passes, the S&W turns up in Texas, this time used in a murder. My point being that when firearms are turned in for evidence or to be destroyed, that doesn't always happen. Sometimes they end up in the collection of someone else, or in the case of the S&W, back on the street. Being a good citizen of New Zealand you're going to turn in all of your Winchester collection. This collection supposedly to be crushed by the government. Think long and hard before you do, and keep in mind the above. I don't know what we in the united States would actually do in a similar situation. The same forces that are doing this to you in N.Z. have an ultimate goal of doing the same thing here in my country. It seems to me that this is all about a Governments fear of their own people, and their ability if deemed necessary to control them by force. Hence we are fortunate at least thus far, to have in the Constitution of the United States the Second Amendment. It seems that the Framers of our Constitution had tremendous foresight.

   Sometimes I tend to be long winded in my responses, sorry.

Apache ( ya ta hey )ConfusedConfusedCryCry

April 12, 2019
6:29 pm
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Simple.......don't turn them in.......

April 12, 2019
7:01 pm
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And we all know that turning in, and crushing "all" the guns is not the answer...view the stats on Chicago for crying out loud. The liberal crazies who want to do this don't think in straight lines...they just make stuff up and try and jam it down out throats. There are a lot of laws concerning guns and who can purchase them in the U.S. but many times the laws are overlooked, not paid attention to, or not enforced. And then they blame the gun folks and want to take them all away. These type of folks have no sound thinking, just mass execution of their crazy ideas. 

"Si vis pacem, para bellum" (Latin) “If you want peace, prepare for war”

April 12, 2019
8:00 pm
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Eagle said
The lady that's running New Zealand and the fine Governor of the State of Oregon sound like sisters. Born and raised here, but have seriously considered leaving because of all the liberalism and craziness in this State. It is amazing how fast things can change. Peter  

Yep.  And why is it it's mainly women who push these things? (no offence intended to the ladies who shoot). Is it that they don't like to see guys having fun?Wink

Liberalism... well our PM is a self confessed commie. Theres even youtube videos of her at a communist rally, calling people "comrades", I kid ya not!

But so many brainwashed people here thing the sun shines out of her posterior. But thats another matter, and I don't want this post turning political, it's not the place. 

Keeping on topic, we are fighting our best to make the policy makers see sense over this ridiculous and most destructive move. I am hoping to get some international coverage if possible, but flailing around in the dark as to know where to start. I know one thing for sure, when the bill comes in to the taxpayer, for all the antique guns they have paid for to be destroyed, when we don't even have the money to pay teachers and nurses a minimum wage increase, there will be hell to pay. For a small country, we have a lot of "collectors" of old firearms. Some of the Winchesters I've seen are just amazing. Sure, nothing like you guys have in the States, but for a dot of a country in the middle of nowhere, we don't do so bad. 

The sheer irony is, of all the guns used in NZ, these 'ol lever actions and pump actions are the least likely to see the outdoors for the most part.   We are talking here about antiques and collectables which are never, ever featured in armed robbery, gang shootings and certainly not terrorist attacks..... the whole concept is truely absurd. It's akin to the police looking in my woodshed and confiscating my small kindling hatchet, but leaving me the tree felling axe, both machetes and the chainsaw!!!!!  I mean how ridiculously stupid is this going to sound when it all comes out that the taxpayers have footed the bill for such dumb measures?

One thing is for sure, stupidity knows no borders eh! It seems able to infect even the most remote of places, and there seems no cure, as those who are afflicted surely neither seem to know nor care. We can only pity them, and try to live with the consequences of their actions. That said, when they really screw up, there's no better feeling than saying "we told you this would happen". 

Thanks guys, we shooters and collectors in NZ appreciate your support in this.

April 13, 2019
2:52 am
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The tragedy is that many of these people let their emotions or political agenda dictate how everyone else is supposed to feel, think, or act.  Its the M.O. of the "left".  Just pick the latest in vogue social media PC or hash-tag movement as an example.  They have every right under the protection of the 1st Amendment to say or express what they want, however they fail to understand and realize that it doesnt mean anyone has to listen.  Were it not that way, among others, you would cease to exist as a democratic republic.  Common Sense has exited the building.  The "left" here is still trying to implement what amounts to modern day Jim Crow laws when it comes to firearms and knives--back then intended to limiting what one (freed slaves) could own or possess.  Not much different today.  To the best of my understanding of the law, and even with the recent "Incorporation" of the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution (believe it was with Heller), state, county, and municipal governments here still try, and sometimes successfully, to restrict what private citizens, by right, can possess.  Its absurd.    

 

Steve1890, I certainly have empathy for what you guys are going through, its a constant battle here as well.  A friend of mine jokes about burying a couple of guns and ammo in PVC tubes in his back yard in case that day ever comes.  Anyone would be foolish to think that what you guys are experiencing could never happen here.  In this day and age that outcome could potentially be one election or Supreme Court appointment away.  Should that day ever come,  it  will indeed be troublesome.      

 

Apache, I had to chuckle a bit when you mentioned that S&W .357.  I bought one in the early 90's, a Trooper III I think, and had it for a couple years then my friend from the pawn shop called me to bring it back in.  Apparently it was stolen out of the evidence room by an officer and later sold, ending up at the pawn shop where I purchased it.  Maybe it was the same one?? Ha 

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"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy."

April 13, 2019
4:21 pm
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A random thought or question...would it be possible for an individual (or group of persons) to send a collection out of the country to a 3rd party storage facility in a gun-friendly country?  I know that brings up export/import issues, limits access and costs $$$ but just wondering if it’s even an option.

Greg

April 13, 2019
10:23 pm
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Could they be “donated” to a “museum” in a gun friendly country ?  Then retrieved after a period of display time....there have to be some creative collectors over there with possible methods before the mandatory date hits.

Bill

April 17, 2019
5:56 am
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Worst case scenario they can part out the guns and just turn in the receivers.

Not my choice but having gone through Aussie buy back and trying to save old Winchesters with limited success at least it would be something.

Regards,

WACA Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

April 17, 2019
3:00 pm
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when drunk drivers cause hurt-death, where is the rush to get rid of cars? that says all you need to know.  they are not interested in the death tolls, only in getting rid of the firearms so we may be controlled by the libatards.

April 17, 2019
8:21 pm
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Steve1890, and All;

  One of the Democrats that in 2020 wants to be President of the United States, of coarse swearing to uphold the Constitution when elected, declared that he would confiscate ALL MILITARY STYLE FIREARMS. Key word being STYLE. He said in addition that if (what were once "law abiding")  CITIZENS REFUSED TO SURRENDER THESES( legally owned ) FIREARMS HE WOULD ORDER THE USE OF FORCE TO TAKE THEM. I seem to remember that another Government (English) tried to confiscate firearms owned by what were to become Americans in the 1770's. It didn't work out very well for England as I recall. Some of todays Politicians seem in reality not to care about the safety or well being of the Citizenry they're supposed to represent, NOR THE CONSTITUTION THEY SWEAR TO UPHOLD. They seem more interested in control of the people, and this by FORCE OF ARMS if they deem it necessary. This type of thinking isn't good, People.

Apache ( ya ta hey )CryCryCryCry

May 1, 2019
2:03 am
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apache said
Steve1890, and All;

  One of the Democrats that in 2020 wants to be President of the United States, of coarse swearing to uphold the Constitution when elected, declared that he would confiscate ALL MILITARY STYLE FIREARMS. Key word being STYLE. He said in addition that if (what were once "law abiding")  CITIZENS REFUSED TO SURRENDER THESES( legally owned ) FIREARMS HE WOULD ORDER THE USE OF FORCE TO TAKE THEM. I seem to remember that another Government (English) tried to confiscate firearms owned by what were to become Americans in the 1770's. It didn't work out very well for England as I recall. Some of todays Politicians seem in reality not to care about the safety or well being of the Citizenry they're supposed to represent, NOR THE CONSTITUTION THEY SWEAR TO UPHOLD. They seem more interested in control of the people, and this by FORCE OF ARMS if they deem it necessary. This type of thinking isn't good, People.

Apache ( ya ta hey )CryCryCryCry  

Apache, Enlighten me please. When did the British try to confiscate firearms before the American Revolution ? They certain would have wanted to once it began. My understanding is that a law similar to the US 2nd Amendment concerning the right of citizens to own arms was written into the British Bill of Rights of 1689 during the reign of William and Mary roughly 100 years before the US Constitution was enacted.

The many thousands of citizens loyal to Britain  who fled the 13 colonies (United Empire Loyalists) and settled in British colonies in what became Canada had no government restrictions on gun ownership. I always thought the Revolution was mostly about self government, taxes without representation, the Quebec Act , the Proclamation of 1763 and trade restrictions not gun control but I could be mistaken. It was the self armed Canadian militias who were effective in repelling some incursions of American forces during the War of 1812. 

We here in Canada are facing similar gun control laws but we currently are more liberal than the US in some respects. I can mail a firearm, even a handgun ,directly  to another gun owners home for example provided he or she is properly  licensed . We do have gun licencing to establish competence in safe gun handling which as a retired game warden I think is a good thing. We did have a Gun Registry for several years but that was mercifully scrapped by our last Conservative government.  There are movements  afoot to confiscate so called "assault rifles" and handguns in some cities due to the rise in gun related crime and the mosque shooting in Quebec and other atrocities over the years and we need to be constantly on guard and politically active here to protect our gun ownership rights but for now they are quite reasonable. I am sorry to hear that NZ has ,in my opinion,  overreacted by including antique firearms in their zeal to respond to that dreadful mass shooting. I wish that there was some way I could help enlighten the law makers to revisit this draconian law.

May 1, 2019
2:37 am
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Google what happened on April 18, 1775, *before* the shot heard round the world.

May 1, 2019
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My understanding is that the events at Concord and Lexington was British response to suspected rebel activity and to arrest rebel leaders Adams and Hancock. and the arms cache was a militia arsenal not personal weapons. The confiscation of personal weapons was not one of the root causes of the rebellion which in the context of this thread is the issue.

May 1, 2019
4:27 am
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It's always been my belief that a militia is a people's army and as such, those were the people's personal weapons.

By definition, it's not a governmental or collective thing.  In fact, that which distinguishes a *well* regulated militia from a regulated militia (State militias?), or even a highly regulated militia (Brown Shirts?) is the fact that the individual people regulate themselves.  It's not a collective thing, regardless of how they choose to bear, or where they choose to keep their arms.  This reading was later codified when a *well* regulated militia was specifically defined as one wherein the right of the *people* to keep and bear arms has not been infringed.

I know it's difficult for people today to fathom a time when "regulated" was something that individuals were capable of doing to themselves, without government, but nevertheless, that used to be the case.  Indeed, it was expected and necessary and it was well that it should be so.

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