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TXGunNut said
My personal maximum effective range with irons was 150 yards because both 150 and 170 bullets begin to drop rapidly soon after 150 and I suck at range estimation. A lot happens between 150 and 200 yards and I just wouldn’t take the chance.
Of equal importance, using irons, is the light. An easy shot with the sun behind you & low in the sky would become almost impossible with those conditions reversed, aiming toward the sun! At my range with the targets at the east end, they become literally invisible once the sun rises above the tree line, & hard to see well until mid-afternoon. But an hour before the sun sets, they glow as if lit up by arc-lights.
clarence said
TXGunNut said
My personal maximum effective range with irons was 150 yards because both 150 and 170 bullets begin to drop rapidly soon after 150 and I suck at range estimation. A lot happens between 150 and 200 yards and I just wouldn’t take the chance.
Of equal importance, using irons, is the light. An easy shot with the sun behind you & low in the sky would become almost impossible with those conditions reversed, aiming toward the sun! At my range with the targets at the east end, they become literally invisible once the sun rises above the tree line, & hard to see well until mid-afternoon. But an hour before the sun sets, they glow as if lit up by arc-lights.
All true,Clarence.All very true.
I shoot a lot and can’t see 100 yds that well with iron sights. So, in my case I wouldn’t hunt at that distance unless the target was big. Like others have said, when preparing for hunts you have to practice in the positions you are likely going to use in the field. I have collapsible shooting sticks and a mono pod I could use. Most my deer hunts are done from a sitting position or standing next to a tree. I couldn’t hit a barn while standing and not having a rest of some sort.
Chuck, Glad to hear your admission of off hand accuracy. I am there in spades. I do rather well off hand at our silhouettes at 100 yards, as recently I shot a perfect score with my muzzle loader at 100 yards. But at 200 yards, I generally shoot myself out of any competition when shooting off hand. And that is first in our rotation. I do quite well off sticks and off the bench, but off hand I need to be inside the barn with doors and windows closed!! KNOWING all that, I now hunt with a pair of cross sticks and apply my known limits. Tim
November 7, 2015
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Chuck said
I shoot a lot and can’t see 100 yds that well with iron sights. So, in my case I wouldn’t hunt at that distance unless the target was big…..
Quite honestly I won’t hunt with irons any more. I still do well enough on paper (or steel) but as Clarence pointed out light is very important. Quite often with iron sights it’s not the sights we see, it’s actually the light beyond the sights. In my experience hunting is often best when lighting is less than optimal, I’ll be using a scoped rifle on future hunts.
At some of the pistol ranges I competed on years ago we would make sight adjustments based on light conditions before we even walked up to the line.
Back to the OP the 30WCF is maligned as a short range rifle cartridge of marginal accuracy. In a bolt gun with spitzer bullets it performs quite well but is still handicapped by a velocity of around 2100-2200 fps. I’ve had a few early 1894’s with good bores and tang sights that actually shot very well. An 1894 in 30WCF sighted in at 150 yards in the hands of an experienced rifleman in good conditions is effective at 200 yards, maybe 250. It’s all about knowing your rifle and your limitations.
Mike
From the Winchester Ballistics Calculator site.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
TXGunNut said
Chuck said
I shoot a lot and can’t see 100 yds that well with iron sights. So, in my case I wouldn’t hunt at that distance unless the target was big…..
Quite honestly I won’t hunt with irons any more. I still do well enough on paper (or steel) but as Clarence pointed out light is very important. Quite often with iron sights it’s not the sights we see, it’s actually the light beyond the sights. In my experience hunting is often best when lighting is less than optimal, I’ll be using a scoped rifle on future hunts.
At some of the pistol ranges I competed on years ago we would make sight adjustments based on light conditions before we even walked up to the line.
Back to the OP the 30WCF is maligned as a short range rifle cartridge of marginal accuracy. In a bolt gun with spitzer bullets it performs quite well but is still handicapped by a velocity of around 2100-2200 fps. I’ve had a few early 1894’s with good bores and tang sights that actually shot very well. An 1894 in 30WCF sighted in at 150 yards in the hands of an experienced rifleman in good conditions is effective at 200 yards, maybe 250. It’s all about knowing your rifle and your limitations.
Mike
That’s why I shoot these now.
As a deer hunting load I’m shooting a 150 Barnes TSX-FN at 2400 FPS, and I am zeroed at 100 yards.
Drop at 150 yards is -2.6”, at 200 yards it’s -7.9”, and at 250 yards it’s -16.6”. For me the energy I’d like to see at impact ends at 200 yards and I wouldn’t shoot past that even if I could hit the animal further out.
At 200 yards there is very little energy difference between the 150 and 170 gr. so I’ll shoot the bullet that has the best terminal ballistics.
Was to the range this afternoon.One of the rifles I took was a Winchester Model 55 in .30 WCF.Most of my shooting was at 50 and 65 yards,However ,I did fire 5 rounds at 100 yards.Surprised myself, in that I was able to put all 5 shots in a 12 inch circle .Shooting free hand with iron sights.Not likely I could do that very often,but it was nice to do just the same.
Was using 170 grain hand loads.
28 gauge said
Was to the range this afternoon.One of the rifles I took was a Winchester Model 55 in .30 WCF.Most of my shooting was at 50 and 65 yards,However ,I did fire 5 rounds at 100 yards.Surprised myself, in that I was able to put all 5 shots in a 12 inch circle .Shooting free hand with iron sights.Not likely I could do that very often,but it was nice to do just the same.
Was using 170 grain hand loads.
That’s good shooting 28 gauge and thanks for sharing.
Just an interesting tidbit on the subject of accuracy and effective shooting. The green hats during the civil war had to pass a marksmanship test in order to qualify to be a member of the Sharpshooters; place ten shots in a circle of 10 inches(size of a dinner plate) in diameter from 200 yards away. The shots were to be accurate enough so that the average distance of them all would be 5 inches or less from the center of the target. Not a small feat considering the breach loaders and rifles they used back in the day!
Rick C
Yes way better than I shoot on most days,Rick,but we all have those good days.
Interesting about the rifle shooting to become a member of the Sharpshooters.
28 gauge said
Interesting about the rifle shooting to become a member of the Sharpshooters.
I always thought it interesting that Frank C. Barnes in his book “Cartridges of the World” said that the old, standby .44-40 was a better short-range deer cartridge than the .30-30, particularly in brush. The .44-40 would need to be a “rifle” load of about 1800 FPM muzzle velocity.
I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder
Bill Hockett said
I always thought it interesting that Frank C. Barnes in his book “Cartridges of the World” said that the old, standby .44-40 was a better short-range deer cartridge than the .30-30, particularly in brush. The .44-40 would need to be a “rifle” load of about 1800 FPM muzzle velocity.
The 44-40 is a rifle load and was developed for the 1873 rifle. It was supposed to have a muzzle velocity of 1800 fps. Originally there were no “pistol” loads. Shooting one of rifle loads in a 4 3/4″ to 7″ pistol barrel would produce way less FPS. All the powder doesn’t have time to burn in such short barrels.
I have never seen an antique box of ammo that said for “pistols/revolvers? Sometime after WW I boxes started saying in addition to the 73 and 92 rifle they added “and other arms”. In the 1930’s they added “Revolvers” but I have no data on this load.
I have not chronographed any original loads in my 73 nor in my Colts. Today the loads done by Winchester are not as hot as original 1870’s loads for liability reasons. I have done some testing on Cowboy loads. They are meant for pistols and Cowboy shooting in a rifle. Most are not even half the speed of an original load.
I remember talking with an old friend of mine.Now long passed, who told me he could not understand people saying the 30-30 was no good as a deer rifle.They seemed to think they needed a 30-06,303 British or in many cases a magnum.He laughed and said he and others had bagged lots of deer with a 44-40 and the deer were no tougher today than they were back then.
The 44-40 as factory loaded today is kept to low pressure.However ,in the past a high velocity load was available for it.I wonder what the velocity of that HV load was and its hitting power?
28 gauge said
The 44-40 as factory loaded today is kept to low pressure.However ,in the past a high velocity load was available for it.I wonder what the velocity of that HV load was and its hitting power?
When it was available, the factory didn’t publish its velocity, but warned against use in ’73s.
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