The predecessor to the No. 310 was the Ideal No. 3, No. 4, and No. 10.

I load 40-70 S.S. and 40-70 Ballard with an Ideal No. 3.

Bert

Bert H. said
I load both the 38 WCF and 44 WCF cartridges with a Lyman Ideal 310 hand tool.  It is a very simple process and the dies are fully adjustable in the tool allowing you to resize only as much of the case as needed, bell the case mouth perfectly, and seat & crimp the bullet in the case to match your rifle's chamber.
This is an example: LYMAN IDEAL 310 TOOL WITH DIES IN ORIGINAL BOX IN 32-20 CALIBER (gunsinternational.com)
Bert
  

Ah, Bert opened up an interesting topic: the Lyman/Ideal 310 nutcracker. 

I'm a big fan.  I have 310 tools in .25-20, 44-40 and a custom 310 in .50 Sharps.  If you guys like shooting the old stuff, you might like loading with a 310.

One word of caution.  The Lyman 310 does not full-length size the brass.  It neck sizes only.  That means you must use brass that was fired in your rifle.  Brass from another firearm may not chamber in yours.  Also, it works best in low-pressure rounds like the .44-40 where you can get away with just neck sizing. 

I attached a link below to an excellent YouTube demo on the 310 tool that was done by Mike Beliveau of the Duelist Den channel.  I regret to report that Mike died earlier this year.  Mike was an excellent reporter on black powder guns and he had a nice manner on camera.  He will be sadly missed.  If you watch this video, you'll see what I mean.

Pete

list=PLDbSDznoXMnOeBgxd2Z6FaTQ5A-0Jy1M1

steve004 said

Bert H. said

steve004 said
The brand of the brass can make a difference.  Many prefer Starline and believe it is the strongest.  There's fair agreement that Winchester brass is the thinnest.  Some prefer it for that very reason as they believe it seals the chamber better.  Additionally thicker brass can be a problem with .429 or larger bullets. 
Seems I've seen more negative comments about Remington .44-40 brass than I have other brands. 
Your mileage can vary a good bit depending on your rifle, your bullets and your load. The choice of brand of brass can be a good variable to manipulate if things aren't working out well. 
  

The original (older) Winchester brass is thin.  The later production brass is heavier.
Bert
  

Do you think the later production Winchester brass is as heavy as Starline?
  

I do not know... I do not have any Starline brass.  All of mine is W-W (Winchester).  It certainly did not feel "thin" when I loaded it.

Bert

Bert H. said

steve004 said
The brand of the brass can make a difference.  Many prefer Starline and believe it is the strongest.  There's fair agreement that Winchester brass is the thinnest.  Some prefer it for that very reason as they believe it seals the chamber better.  Additionally thicker brass can be a problem with .429 or larger bullets. 
Seems I've seen more negative comments about Remington .44-40 brass than I have other brands. 
Your mileage can vary a good bit depending on your rifle, your bullets and your load. The choice of brand of brass can be a good variable to manipulate if things aren't working out well. 
  

The original (older) Winchester brass is thin.  The later production brass is heavier.
Bert
  

Do you think the later production Winchester brass is as heavy as Starline?

steve004 said
The brand of the brass can make a difference.  Many prefer Starline and believe it is the strongest.  There's fair agreement that Winchester brass is the thinnest.  Some prefer it for that very reason as they believe it seals the chamber better.  Additionally thicker brass can be a problem with .429 or larger bullets. 
Seems I've seen more negative comments about Remington .44-40 brass than I have other brands. 
Your mileage can vary a good bit depending on your rifle, your bullets and your load. The choice of brand of brass can be a good variable to manipulate if things aren't working out well. 
  

The original (older) Winchester brass is thin.  The later production brass is heavier.

Bert

Seems I've seen more negative comments about Remington .44-40 brass than I have other brands. 

Your mileage can vary a good bit depending on your rifle, your bullets and your load. The choice of brand of brass can be a good variable to manipulate if things aren't working out well. 

slk said
Ok I have another question about the 44-40. Somewhere along my life I have had this box of 44-40 ammo. Seams like forever and I do not ever remember having anything to shoot it out of. I as m assuming it may be factory ammo but not sure. The bullet is flat nosed lead but  it is also a copper jacket. So my concern is did they make them in high velocity rounds for some other gun. Wish there was a way to tell?? Guess i could take one apart and weigh the bullet and the powder. Just trying to be careful. 
  

Yes, Winchester manufactured high velocity "W.H.V." jacketed 44 WCF ammo (for the Model 1892 and Single Shot models).

Bert

This is an example: LYMAN IDEAL 310 TOOL WITH DIES IN ORIGINAL BOX IN 32-20 CALIBER (gunsinternational.com)

Bert

To those things I would only add:

○ Start with small batches. A first run of anything new is interesting but tiring. A perfect first batch of 10 cartridges allows me to concentrate on technique and avoids any pressure to hurry.

○ Don't choose a too-hard cast bullet to avoid leading. Unlike vintage barrels roughened by corrosion, your new Miroku bore is very slick and I'd be surprised to see any sharp edges or tool marks. An alloy of about 12 should expand under the forces of ignition to fill the grooves and prevent gas cutting. As Pete says, you are not going to choose a high pressure, high temperature, progressive charge that would melt the base and require a gas check. At civilized, post Civil War velocities,  a 200 grain 44 RNFP lead bullet will kill the biggest Whitetail deer that ever walked with a high lung shot at a hundred yards or less. And undoubtedly has been doing so ever since 1873. 

I hope to add to that count before cashing in my chips. 

Thank You

slk said
Hey guys is anything special I need to know about reloading for 44-40?  I keep hearing nightmares about how thin the necks are and they tend to crumple. 
I already do 25-20, 32-20, 22 hornet , 218bee. Never had any issues with them. 
It looks like a fun cartridge to load. 
  

I see you have had some good advice already.  

I have two things to add.  Number One, if you're loading for a Model '73 (or any other weak action type), be sure to use low-pressure loads.  Check that your loading recipe is from a recognized source and is intended for your firearm's action type.  A load that is safe in a Model '92 could wreck a '73.

Number Two, at the charging stage, check that you haven't accidentally double-charged a case.  The .44-40 was designed for black powder and there's room in the case for a double charge of smokeless.  (It's like the .45-70 that way.)  Just place your charged cases in a tray and shine a flashlight in to check for powder level.  An empty case or double-charge will be obvious to the eye.

Good luck,

Pete

  Not all Winchester 1873 barrels are equally straight.    T/R

Fortunately, Browning is very good about furnishing manufacturing specifications and Miroku uses highly advanced precision manufacturing techniques that result in dimensions that match those specifications with very small tolerances. 

Browning has elected to adopt the modern 44 caliber dimensions to which the 44 Magnum adheres - including groove diameter of .429 plus or minus .001.  A cast bullet of 200 grains sized to .430 is a good place to start, although slugging the barrel may show .431 is better. 

This does mean that factory ammunition loaded with a .427 bullet may not shoot accurately. 

Colt revolvers have been all over the map and an overlarge chamber mouth almost always guarantees poor accuracy, whatever the barrel. A 44 "Sheriff's Model"  SAA - correctly called a Storekeeper's Model -- with dual cylinders,  44 Winchester and 44 Special, may shoot one cartridge better than the other, or neither, depending on dimensions. 

As others have said, just take it easy and pay attention to the bullet seating operation, you'll be fine.

Paul