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Does anyone predict prices for new ammunition for older cartridges to come down?
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December 6, 2021 - 1:05 am
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I’m not talking about gunbroker prices or price gouger prices.  Rather, usual prices found in stores like Scheels, Cabelas or mail order suppliers like Midway.

The other day I was in Fleet Farm and they happened to have two boxes of .32 spl. and two boxes of .35 Remington for about $45 each (Remington Corelokts).  This seemed like a lot of money to me.  I came home and checked out Midway.  Their price is $57 and they are, “unavailable.”  Midway also lists .35 Remington Corelokts for $56 (“unavailable”).  This certainly implies that when they become available, the price will be at least that much.  I checked out ammoseek.com and two suppliers have Remington .32 spl. – available – and they can be had for $70 per box.  All this is plus shipping of course. 

My feeling is these prices will not come down but I’m curious if others agree. 

By the way, Fleet Farm had no .30-30 on hand.  I suspect they did, but given the popularity of the .30-30, I suspect they got scooped up right away with .32 spl. owners being far less common.  They did have some .30-06 Remington Corelokt for $27 a box.  It seems that the older, semi-obsolete cartridges such as .32 special and .35 Remington see limited production from the ammunition companies, and this makes for bigger price jumps than the more common/popular cartridges.

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December 6, 2021 - 1:28 am
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Steve,

I believe prices will come down on current production ammo, basing this on the last 3 shortages. Supply still has to catch up with demand. When the shelves are filled at ALL the retailers prices will drop. Same with reloading components.

Semi obsolete ammo will probably remain at a premium for a longer bit of time, until demand for high volume current manufacture subsides. When this demand is met, seasonal runs of 32 Sp. 35 Rem, 7×57 etc. will start showing up.

I believe the price of antique ammo will not come down and will probably continue to climb. There are only X amount of boxes out there and the fakers have not come up with a way to produce more……….  My 2 cents worth.

 

Erin

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December 6, 2021 - 2:30 am
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  Inflation will start about the time supply comes back. If we are talking dollars, I don’t think it will go back to where it was.

  If you want to shoot buy the dies, cases, powder, and primers. T/R

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December 6, 2021 - 3:24 am
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Why should they come down so long as customers stand in line to pay whatever price is asked?  “Just say no” is un-American. 

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December 6, 2021 - 3:42 am
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I wish I knew. I thought things would be back to normal several months ago but now I’m struggling to define “normal”. I’m seeing mainstream ammo and as my shotgun ammo supplies dwindle I’m feeling fortunate to find target 12 and 20 gauge shells for $100/flat. Last time I bought it for $65/flat. I’ve been told we’ll never see those prices again. 

For the older guns I load over 95 percent of the rifle and pistol center fire ammo I shoot. I generally cast nearly every bullet I shoot as well. My first primer shortage was over 30 years ago, I ran a little low then because I was a comp shooter but I’ve never run low since. Seems primers are always the last component to return to the shelves. I don’t shoot much these days so the small stash I have on hand should tide me over. I suspect the big online like Midway and Cabelas are asking high prices to discourage hoarding and re-selling. Why sell a box of 30-30’s for $17 and allow hoarders to buy them all up or sell them for a big profit?

 

Mike

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December 6, 2021 - 5:12 am
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TXGunNut said  Why sell a box of 30-30’s for $17 and allow hoarders to buy them all up or sell them for a big profit?
 

If GB (where most of the profiteering is conducted) wasn’t the corrupt, fraud-enabling, enterprise it is, sales of new ammo above MSRP would be prohibited…which would be a major disincentive for hoarders buying to resell.

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December 6, 2021 - 5:47 pm
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clarence said

TXGunNut said  Why sell a box of 30-30’s for $17 and allow hoarders to buy them all up or sell them for a big profit?
 

If GB (where most of the profiteering is conducted) wasn’t the corrupt, fraud-enabling, enterprise it is, sales of new ammo above MSRP would be prohibited…which would be a major disincentive for hoarders buying to resell.  

I know there can be both fraud and poor ethics on gunbroker.  On the other hand, they are an auction site.  If a seller lists a new box of .32 specials, starts it at a penny and lets it run – assuming there are no shill bidders – is there any fraudulent or ethical issues if the bidders bid it up to triple the MSRP (which is what they are doing presently)?  

Personally, I don’t have much issue if a seller lists a box of .32 special at triple the MSRP for the opening bid.  I don’t place that in the same price-gouging category I would when stores triple prices of plywood or bottled water when a hurricane is about to hit.  

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December 6, 2021 - 6:27 pm
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Nothing ever goes back down to the last price.  When this is all over I think everything will be a little higher.  Brownells may have had some primers last week but by the time I got around to looking for them they were sold out.  They were advertised at 2x the pre covid price. The range I go to has a very nice store.  I recently bought 10 lbs of powder for just a little more than pre covid prices.  I also bought 1500 bullets from another dealer for pre covid prices.   I expect this to be the norm.

Now that RCBS does not make dies or die parts except for their top sellers, loading dies will be really hard to find.   Go on their website and look for a part for a very common and usually easy to find die.  Don’t be surprised if you can’t find a listing. I called customer service and ordered some parts and received most of what I needed but not the whole order.  The reason I called was I couldn’t find parts for sale on their website.

I believe that Redding will make custom dies for around $300 per set.  You have to call to get an answer.

Nothing is going to get easier for us collectors.

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December 6, 2021 - 6:49 pm
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steve004 said

I know there can be both fraud and poor ethics on gunbroker.  On the other hand, they are an auction site.  If a seller lists a new box of .32 specials, starts it at a penny and lets it run – assuming there are no shill bidders – is there any fraudulent or ethical issues if the bidders bid it up to triple the MSRP (which is what they are doing presently)?  

  

Absolutely there is, because the ethical issue is hoarding & profiteering, which could be suppressed by denying the hoarders & profiteers the medium they’re using to conduct their business.  Why should operating as an auction site mean there shouldn’t be rules to inhibit bad behavior–behavior which hurts us all.  

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December 6, 2021 - 6:59 pm
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steve004 said

I know there can be both fraud and poor ethics on gunbroker.  On the other hand, they are an auction site.  If a seller lists a new box of .32 specials, starts it at a penny and lets it run – assuming there are no shill bidders – is there any fraudulent or ethical issues if the bidders bid it up to triple the MSRP (which is what they are doing presently)?  

Personally, I don’t have much issue if a seller lists a box of .32 special at triple the MSRP for the opening bid.     

I concur Steve, There is NO ONE forcing these bidders to keep upping the ante. After the last three shortages if anyone was caught with their pants down and they keep no inventory of ammunition, I feel no animosity towards them. Pay the piper if you want to keep shooting.

I’ve gotten rid of a ton of stuff I would never use at prices I never expected because of this current shortage. Reloading dies I would of normally expected to get $20-25 a set for were selling for $45-60 on flea bay. Bullets I would of expected $20-25 a box went for stupid money. One box I recall specifically was a box of old Winchester 30 caliber flat nose silver tips sold for $96!  I don’t feel one bit guilty about taking their money, I started the bids at pre covid pricing and away it went. If these buyers are willing to shell out stupid money, I will gladly accept it……….

Erin

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December 6, 2021 - 8:29 pm
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Erin Grivicich said    
I concur Steve, There is NO ONE forcing these bidders to keep upping the ante. After the last three shortages if anyone was caught with their pants down and they keep no inventory of ammunition, I feel no animosity towards them. Pay the piper if you want to keep shooting.
 

Both of you are missing the point unless you believe hoarding, profiteering, & panic buying are good for our sport.  You think it’s a good thing, for ex., that profiteers who live close to a store with a daily ammo quota come in day after day (maybe bringing their spouse & friends), not for their own needs, but to turn around & resell on GB?  That’s why the poor guy buying only for his own needs so often finds the shelves empty.  The problem isn’t the buyers paying the ridiculous prices, it’s the hoarders who, by artificially restricting the supply, drive up the prices.

During WWII, rationing of scarce goods was imposed for the express purpose of preventing profiteers who could by some means acquire more of those goods than needed for their own use from reselling them at a profit.  Those with the means to pay that profit did so willingly, but still it was prohibited by law.  How is that situation different from profiteers taking advantage of the ammo shortage today?  It isn’t.

Selling your own property bought originally for your own use is not a comparable analogy.

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December 6, 2021 - 8:33 pm
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Erin Grivicich said

steve004 said
I know there can be both fraud and poor ethics on gunbroker.  On the other hand, they are an auction site.  If a seller lists a new box of .32 specials, starts it at a penny and lets it run – assuming there are no shill bidders – is there any fraudulent or ethical issues if the bidders bid it up to triple the MSRP (which is what they are doing presently)?  
Personally, I don’t have much issue if a seller lists a box of .32 special at triple the MSRP for the opening bid.     

I concur Steve, There is NO ONE forcing these bidders to keep upping the ante. After the last three shortages if anyone was caught with their pants down and they keep no inventory of ammunition, I feel no animosity towards them. Pay the piper if you want to keep shooting.

I’ve gotten rid of a ton of stuff I would never use at prices I never expected because of this current shortage. Reloading dies I would of normally expected to get $20-25 a set for were selling for $45-60 on flea bay. Bullets I would of expected $20-25 a box went for stupid money. One box I recall specifically was a box of old Winchester 30 caliber flat nose silver tips sold for $96!  I don’t feel one bit guilty about taking their money, I started the bids at pre covid pricing and away it went. If these buyers are willing to shell out stupid money, I will gladly accept it……….

Erin  

Everything is relative.  Is it really, “stupid money” if it would have otherwise been spent on, “hookers and cocaine”?  Sorry, but this is an example a friend used with me decades ago.  I thought it amusing and it just stuck with me. Surprised

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December 6, 2021 - 8:45 pm
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clarence said

Erin Grivicich said    
I concur Steve, There is NO ONE forcing these bidders to keep upping the ante. After the last three shortages if anyone was caught with their pants down and they keep no inventory of ammunition, I feel no animosity towards them. Pay the piper if you want to keep shooting.
 

Both of you are missing the point unless you believe hoarding, profiteering, & panic buying are good for our sport.  You think it’s a good thing, for ex., that profiteers who live close to a store with a daily ammo quota come in day after day (maybe bringing their spouse & friends), not for their own needs, but to turn around & resell on GB?  That’s why the poor guy buying only for his own needs so often finds the shelves empty.  The problem isn’t the buyers paying the ridiculous prices, it’s the hoarders who, by artificially restricting the supply, drive up the prices.

Selling your own property bought originally for your own use is not a comparable analogy.  

Clarence – you have transported me back to 1976 or 1977.  I was sitting in a college course titled, “Existentialism” and the topic was the French philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre.  Even though Sartre was an atheist, he advocated a high personal code of ethics.  He advanced the concept that every man should conduct himself by posing the question, “what if every man acted this way?” Mr. Sartre would be proud of you.  

“And every man ought to say to himself, “Am I really the kind of man who has the right to act in such a way that humanity might guide itself by my actions?”

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December 6, 2021 - 11:01 pm
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I don’t see how anything could change. Unless you go into the ammunition manufacturing business yourself. More demand = more supply needs. I’ve been told all the ammo companies are working steadily to fill the demand around the clock. The only way to counteract the issue would be making more of the supply. Even then you’ll be hindered by one major factor and that is primers or producing priming compound. You can get the machinery to make the bullets and the brass. But powder and even worse is priming to manufacture them is too much government red tape and the insurance is through the roof. Blame the lawyers! There is a reason why only the big firms can afford to manufacture the complete product. 

A family friend is a bullet manufacturing sub-contractor to Hornady and all his stuff is automated. Other than regular maintenance and checking on the equipment, everything pretty much runs itself. I wish someone readily produced brass for all the obsolete calibers at reasonable prices. I do wonder with 3D printing technically coming around the corner, how easy it will eventually become to make your own components. Still the major problem will be producing the powder and primers. 

Sincerely,

Maverick

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December 8, 2021 - 12:45 am
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I just did a search on ammoseek.com for .25-20, .32-20, .38-40 and .44-40.  Not a single box available of any of these cartridges from any supplier in the country.

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December 8, 2021 - 2:01 am
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steve004 said
I just did a search on ammoseek.com for .25-20, .32-20, .38-40 and .44-40.  Not a single box available of any of these cartridges from any supplier in the country.  

Well, maybe that’s not too surprising, as none of those are exactly what you’d call popular cartridges.  But look at this page from Targetsport, where I’ve been buying 22LR for the last 10 yrs: https://www.targetsportsusa.com/22-long-rifle-ammo-c-202.aspx#Ma132|

Nothing under 20 cents rd, where I’d been paying 4 two yrs ago, & everything else out of stock.  I used to shoot a min of 50 rds/ day an average of 5 days/wk.; no more.

Most incomprehensible is the deficiency in foreign production, as only Bidenland could afford to pay workers NOT to work.

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December 8, 2021 - 4:00 am
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steve004 said
I just did a search on ammoseek.com for .25-20, .32-20, .38-40 and .44-40.  Not a single box available of any of these cartridges from any supplier in the country.  

I reload for all four of these calibers.  You have to in order to survive.  It is the answer to this particular predicament.

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December 8, 2021 - 6:00 pm
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Here’s something to ponder.  Take a look at RCBS’ parent company Vista Outdoors.  Look at what else they own.  Then dig deeper and see who are the major stock holders and investors.  At this point you may be getting a little sick.  There is a rumor that Soros is buying up these types of businesses and is planning to shut them down.  

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December 8, 2021 - 6:40 pm
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Chuck said
Here’s something to ponder.  Take a look at RCBS’ parent company Vista Outdoors.  Look at what else they own.  Then dig deeper and see who are the major stock holders and investors.  At this point you may be getting a little sick.  There is a rumor that Soros is buying up these types of businesses and is planning to shut them down.    

Not only can I believe that, but I don’t doubt the executives at Vista would co-operate enthusiastically, if their payouts were large enough.  US ammo makers have already proven their concern for us by giving first preference in filling orders to our mutual enemy, the federal gov’t., which is why, given a choice, I’ll always buy foreign made ammo over domestic.

Who’s also to blame?  The money-grubbing owners of the companies which sold out to Vista.

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December 8, 2021 - 7:37 pm
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mrcvs said

I reload for all four of these calibers.  You have to in order to survive.  It is the answer to this particular predicament.  

I also reload for all four of these calibers.  However, I also like having some factory ammunition around.  Not that I shoot much of it (and less so now) but I do like to compare how factory ammunition shoots compared to my handloads.  Plus, I just like having some factory stuff around.

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