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270 W.C.F. Target Load
September 3, 2019
6:13 pm
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I have acquired a Model 70 Target rifle in 270 W.C.F. Ser. #50439.  It's in very good to excellent condition and no extra holes.  The bore seems perfect.

Looked on the internet and found that there isn't a lot positive information concerning the 270 as a target cartridge.

Anyone here on the forum done any reloading with good results?

Thanks, Roger

September 3, 2019
8:25 pm
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Really have no experience with a 270.  I would use a 135 gr. Sierra MatchKing bullet to start.   Sierra recommends using 56.7 gr. of RE-22 for 3000 fps.  MatchKings are very good target bullets.

September 3, 2019
11:18 pm
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Thanks Chuck.  Sounds like a good place to start.  I don't have any of the match king bullets, but I do have a few different 130 grain bullets.  I will have to check on getting that powder.  I do have some IMR 4831 which was told works good in the 270 and that was what I was expecting to hear as to which powder to use.  Roger

September 4, 2019
4:32 pm
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Roger, the Sierra loading manual gives 18 different loads for just the 130 and 135 gr bullets.  The load I gave you was their accuracy load.  If you want to use 4831 they say to use 55.6 grains.   They have the same amount of loads for the 140 and 150 grain bullets too. But the MatchKing does not come in these weights.  For general shooting at paper one of their hunting bullets will work better than I can shoot.  Lighter bullets shoot flatter but are more affected by the wind. Heavier bullets drop more but are less affected by the wind and carry more down range energy.  Accuracy loads for the 140 and 150 grain bullets are H4350 with 49.7 gr and RE-22 with 53.7 gr.  Using 4831 the 140 and 150 grain bullets, 54 gr and 52.8 gr.

September 4, 2019
5:31 pm
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Hi Roger-

I have no experience developing target loads for the 270 W.C.F. so I'm just writing to ask if you'll post a couple photos of the rifle so I can be jealous.  I've got a type III 270 WIN Target Model (S/N 250764) but would sure like to have a pre-war one!!!

Congrats!!! Laugh

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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September 4, 2019
7:09 pm
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Thanks Chuck, I will give it a try.  I don't have any Match King bullets, but do have some period, 40s & 50s, 130 gr. bullets.  That will suit my needs and go well with a WWII vintage model 70.  I am sure the Lyman 12X scope will help.  I will post my results next Tues., if all goes as planned.

September 5, 2019
2:56 am
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Roger-

Have no experience with the fine 270 WCF but I recently scanned an article in American Rifleman about this grand old cartridge. I’m a bit behind on my periodical perusing and unfortunately I did not save the issue but if you can locate it you may find it interesting.

 

Mike

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September 5, 2019
1:06 pm
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MOD.-70-270-001.JPGImage EnlargerMOD.-70-270-002.JPGImage EnlargerMOD.-70-270-003.JPGImage EnlargerMOD.-70-270-004.JPGImage Enlarger

Chuck, Lewis & TX, Thanks for your replies.  First, I should have explained that I am trying for good accuracy using the basic type original components.  Maybe a different powder, but using standard bullets as opposed to the sleek bullets of today.  I didn't state that up front.  Original 40s & 50s bullets that I have on hand are what I will be using.

I need to learn how to take better pictures, but these should help.   I have a dandy 12X Lyman that will help with my shot placement.  If more pictures would be a help, let me know what you would like.

Thanks again, Roger

September 5, 2019
5:11 pm
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Roger that is a nice looking gun.  Since the bullets are different than the Speer's use a little less powder at first.  After firing check the brass for any signs of over pressure.   I am not sure that I would want to remove the existing sights to mount a scope?  If you do don't harm/modify the gun.  Scopes really help old eyes.

September 5, 2019
5:44 pm
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Roger-

Thanks for the photos.  I AM jealous!!! Sights and blocks are all period correct.  As long as you use a Unertl or Lyman STS scope you should be able to mount it via the existing scope blocks and leave the Lyman 48WH in place.  At most removing the aperture disc or the staff/cross bar.

Awaiting a range report... Laugh

Lou

P.S.  I just realized that the SN of your 270 WCF is very near that of a 257 ROBERTS target rifle of mine (S/N 50415):

50415-A.jpgImage Enlarger50415-C.jpgImage Enlarger50415-E.jpgImage Enlarger50415-G.jpgImage Enlarger

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WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

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September 5, 2019
10:46 pm
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Roger, I own a model 70 that has been customized.  It was a 1954 production if I recall, and the barrel was toast.  Shot groups that looked more like shotgun targets.  The 150 grain round nose bullets (Remington factory) were the best at the time.  It wears a Shilen air gauged barrel now in custom wood and I have used it the most of any rifle I own for elk, mule deer, white tail deer, antelope, even a jack rabbit or two.  It and I at best shoot about a 1 and a quarter minute group, as long as I limit it to 5 shots or fewer as the barrel gets hot quickly.  Used to load only IMR 4350, but changed to IMR 4831.  Seems I get better groups with that powder.  I won't say what I load though, as once before that has had bad reactions by a "friend" who may or may not have followed my advice.  For elk I used 150 grain partition bullets that I had had for many years (price tag was $12 for the 50).  Mostly I use run of the mill Sierra 130 grain boat tail spitzers.  I do not have a combination that would do justice in a tight group league or target work, but it works quite nicely for hunting with my shots being under 300 yards.  And yes, I still have a supply of Hornady 150 grain round nose bullets that I expect to shoot up in the next year or two, just because.   I would just enjoy your rifle and shooting it.  I don't think the .270 Winchester is known as a long range accuracy round, but I don't see why it shouldn't be able to work at that if the barrel is up to it, the action is trued, etc.  

Tim

September 6, 2019
2:02 am
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Thanks Tim.  The range I go to is limited to 100 yards.  Besides, at 75 and still recovering from pneumonia, that's far enough for me to walk and tote the wooden target frames. I'm just hoping to have a decent shooter.  This might be the only time I use the rifle. I have decided to shoot all my Winchesters except the four I have that have never been fired since leaving the factory.  It's time to really enjoy what I have.  There is a good chance I won't be able to get what I paid for my guns when they are finally sold.  I won't go into my poor choices and what was paid.  If I liked the gun I bought it.  I am one of those that got snookered, more than once. On the other hand, the LORD has blessed me with lots of goodies and pretty good health.  I will add a picture of the rifle with the scope.  The scope and a Merit adjustable eye piece are the only things I have added.  The bridge has not been tapped.  Roger

 

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September 7, 2019
2:11 am
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Roger, that is one fine looking Winchester model 70!  I don't collect that model, but I sure would be happy to have that one!  I should think the heavy barrel, coupled with what was a fine trigger, would allow you to print relatively satisfying groups at 100 yards all day long.  Good shooting to you and hope you recover from the side effects of your pneumonia.  So far that is something I have avoided!  I have had both pneumonia shots, so hope to avoid it in the foreseeable future, too!  I would look at using a 130 grain bullet of conventional design, Hodgdon H-4831 using about 55 to 55.5 grains in selected cases (I have had good luck with Federal Gold Medal plated cases), and Federal 210M primers.  I do have one target in my notebook where that load printed a 2 and 7/8ths inch three shot group at 300 yards for me.  I neck size only as only have the one rifle in that caliber, and I do not crimp the bullet in the case.  My dies are standard RCBS dies, so might be some room to improve slightly with bench rest grade dies, but I do NOT know that.  Muzzle velocity is not blazing, but works well.  I long ago got over the phase of trying for every foot per second velocity I could get, and now try for the tightest groups I can get.  H-4831 comes in various flavors, with Short Cut versions and standard long grains.  If you weigh each charge I don't think it will matter.  I have read and heard good things about RL-22, but have no experience with it in this caliber.  Let me know how it works out for you, please.  TimSmile

September 8, 2019
7:01 pm
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Roger, as luck would have it, the mail yesterday contained the new (Oct) issue of "Handloader".  It has an article on loading the .270 Win.  Naturally it is all about new bullets and new powders, NONE of which I have any experience with!  And I have enough of my old standby's on hand there is no need to venture into the new products.  Like most of my things, I too, am obsolete!  The author did find a fair number of bullet/powder combinations that would go into less than an inch at 100 yards for three shots.  I personally try for five shot groups unless it is a hot day and I am shooting a sporter weight barrel.  You have raised the specter that says I need to go to the range and shoot mine more!  There is still a lot of life left in its bore.  Tim.Laugh

September 10, 2019
6:29 pm
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Well yesterday proved to be quite a learning experience.  I got a lot of education in a short period of time.  I am glad there weren't a lot of other shooters present, I would have really embarrassed myself.  I haven't shot, with the exception of some 22s, seriously in many years.  High power is a whole new game for me.  

First lesson was that Lyman scope mounts must be tightened more than finger tight!  DUH!  Second was making sure the rifle is mounted properly and steady.  After going through the first 15 rounds I got the gun to start printing as it should.  I had decided to start a 50 yards to cut down on shooter error.  Good thing I did, saved a lot of grief and time.  I will do more and hopefully better the next time.  My session was shortened by being needed to help on the trap range.

With a 6 o'clock hold, this is what I got from the next 5 rounds.  First three on the right, 2 adjustment clicks to the left and the next two to the left.  Win. 130 gr. Power point, 47.5 grains of Varget.  I did run a dry patch thru the bore after each 5 rounds.  I hope to get to the H-4831 next time.  Thanks Guys, Roger

 

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September 10, 2019
10:41 pm
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What is a 6 o'clock hold?  You're saying you did not aim at the center?  Good pattern though.  I found when mounting a scope the rings have to be real tight to the action but just tight enough on the scope tube to not let it move.  You need to try several different bullets with several different powders to see which your gun likes best. Using a Speer bullet they say 46.3 grains with Varget is a max load.

September 11, 2019
1:28 am
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Chuck,

The military teaches the 6 o'clock hold sighting method.  Simply put the crosshair (or the top of the front sight), on the bottom (6 o'clock) of the bulls-eye.  It is how you should aim/sight all handguns, and it works well with a rifle if you are experienced at doing it.

Bert

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September 11, 2019
3:28 pm
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Hi Chuck, slow reply due to computer keyboard dying.  Bert answered the 6 o'clock hold  question.  It compensates for the bullet rise.  I like to shoot into the bullseye so that explains the hold.  Especially if I use the "Shoot N See" stickers.  

In regards to the load:  I was using an old Sierra manual and using the IMR 4064 loading.  I understand that Varget can be used in duplicate weights to the 4064 loads.  If I am misinformed please enlighten me.  The cases and primers show no signs of excessive pressure.  However, this load is near the top of the suggested load maximum. 

I have an almost full 8 lb. jug of the Varget and only a third of a 1 lb. can of the H-4831.  So that is why I decided to use the Varget.

I DO NOT recommend any of the loads I use.  I am only stating the results I get.

Thanks to all,  Roger

September 11, 2019
6:21 pm
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rogertherelic said
Hi Chuck, slow reply due to computer keyboard dying.  Bert answered the 6 o'clock hold  question.  It compensates for the bullet rise.  I like to shoot into the bullseye so that explains the hold.  Especially if I use the "Shoot N See" stickers.  

In regards to the load:  I was using an old Sierra manual and using the IMR 4064 loading.  I understand that Varget can be used in duplicate weights to the 4064 loads.  If I am misinformed please enlighten me.  The cases and primers show no signs of excessive pressure.  However, this load is near the top of the suggested load maximum. 

I have an almost full 8 lb. jug of the Varget and only a third of a 1 lb. can of the H-4831.  So that is why I decided to use the Varget.

I DO NOT recommend any of the loads I use.  I am only stating the results I get.

Thanks to all,  Roger  

My Hodgdon manual says 54 grains of H 4831 for a starting load and 60 grains for a MAX load.  Using Varget, Hodgdon says 43 grains for a starting load and 46 for a MAX load.  Using IMR 4064, Hodgdon says 42 grains for a starting load and 47.3 as a MAX load.  It is just my opinion but I generally use at least 2 grains of powder less than the MAX load data as my MAX with these powders.  You will loose about 100 FPS but are a lot safer.  Varget will shoot about 100 FPS faster than the others.  My suggestion is that you get a loading manual from the company that makes your bullets and one from the powder manufacturer.

With iron sights I always have the top of the sight just below the target area so you can see what you are sighting.  With a scope I put the crosshairs exactly where I want to hit.

September 12, 2019
12:54 pm
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Thanks Chuck for your information.  The manuals I have date back to the 80s and 90s.  So, I am not up to current knowledge.  I will start over and be more careful with my loadings.  In the beginning of my hand loading, when I planned on hunting, I thought maxim was where I should be concentrating. I no longer feel that way.  I want to shoot flies and not moose now.  Safety first should be the priority.  Thanks again for the 'wake up', as usual I have started to run before I have learned to walk.  In actuality, my mother said I started to run before I could walk.  I haven't learned or changed much.  Roger

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