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Winchester Takedown Leverguns
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Great Basin
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January 2, 2021 - 1:21 am
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I’ve been having trouble finding the time to get any shooting in lately, but I finally got the chance exercise a few Winchester takedowns today.  I even got to spend some time in the shop tightening one up.  Hope you’ll take the time to tag along.  Mark

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January 2, 2021 - 5:29 am
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GREAT VIDEO!

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January 2, 2021 - 1:35 pm
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 Mark, The punch to tighten the takedown was a great tip, I always tried the screws with limited success. Thanks T/R

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January 2, 2021 - 1:38 pm
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Thanks Mark.  I’ve got a Savage 1899 .22 HP takedown that isn’t quite tight and a previous owner shimmed with a piece of thread (almost looks like dental floss).  After watching your video I’ll take a looksee if there is a similar adjustment to tighten it up.  (Shuuhh…don’t tell anyone I posted this on Winchester forum).

Mac

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January 2, 2021 - 2:44 pm
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Great video Mark! not having any take downs but having an interest in them, I’ve wondered what the adjustment method would be. Your video was very informative. I always enjoy the guns you display and the scenery at your various ranges as well.

Happy New Year and keep ‘em coming!

Brian

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January 2, 2021 - 4:03 pm
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Mark,

Another great video and very informative. I have several takedowns, both 1892’s, and 1894’s and this really helps to understand them.

Happy New Year,

Al

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January 2, 2021 - 6:17 pm
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Agreed, great video and tips. Thanks for taking the time to put these together, Mark ….. good stuff.

Here’s a 25-35 1894 I had to adjust many years ago. It was my first takedown and was very loose. I’m talking slide a credit card in the gap loose. I wish I would have thought of using a punch to do the work, rather than pushing the metal out with the screws. I got it done, but it was quite a chore. I’ve been told that you can peen the threads a bit on extreme examples like this to help with the gap, but I’ve never tried it. To be honest, I doubt I would ever buy one like that again ….. live and learn. 

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January 2, 2021 - 7:34 pm
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Thanks guys.  I figured people might be getting a little tired of just watching me shooting my toys and giggling, so I tried to include something a little more useful in this one.  Like Gary, I’d adjusted a couple of them using the screws, but it was really tough and I buggered at least one screw each time.  It was when I took one of the screws out to clean up the slot and saw that Winchester had turned down the end to the inner diameter of the threads that the light came on.  For me, this method is much simpler and less frustrating.   

I’m going to try to include more useful information in future episodes, but I can’t promise there won’t any more of me just shamelessly enjoying myself shooing some of my (or my wife’s) toys.  

Thanks for watching!Smile

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January 2, 2021 - 8:43 pm
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Mark Douglas said
Thanks guys.  I figured people might be getting a little tired of just watching me shooting my toys and giggling, so I tried to include something a little more useful in this one.  Like Gary, I’d adjusted a couple of them using the screws, but it was really tough and I buggered at least one screw each time.  It was when I took one of the screws out to clean up the slot and saw that Winchester had turned down the end to the inner diameter of the threads that the light came on.  For me, this method is much simpler and less frustrating.   

I’m going to try to include more useful information in future episodes, but I can’t promise there won’t any more of me just shamelessly enjoying myself shooing some of my (or my wife’s) toys.  

Thanks for watching!Smile  

I liked this video the best.  How about a little one on removing the forend cap and magazine tube?  I have seen a lot of swirled tubes and scratched barrels.

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January 2, 2021 - 10:43 pm
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Very informative. Thanks. I have several takedowns, including the .25-35 which is one of my favorite cartridges.

Shoot low boys. They're riding Shetland Ponies.

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January 3, 2021 - 12:07 pm
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Suddenly, I want to go find a loose takedown rifle for sale….  nice information, thanks.

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January 3, 2021 - 3:14 pm
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Mark – great video!  Very informative.  I agree with Chuck, I liked this one the best of your videos.

My Dad had an ’86 .38-56 with a full magazine that was a takedown rifle.  As a teenager and a young man, I recall we were never able to take it down.  There was no evidence of shimming.  I don’t know if it had been ever taken apart.  I wonder with some of these (that haven’t been cared for well) if the metal on metal of aspect – results in the two pieces rusting together?  It wouldn’t surprise me if that was common on those that have gone scores of years without being taken down and lubricated.  Rust can be a formidable weld.  We applied a lot of penetrating oil on the joint but I suspect it didn’t make it in very far.  We never went as far as using a vice/action wrench.  We were smart enough to not want to risk doing any harm.  We also had no pragmatic reason to take it apart (we didn’t need to travel by train with it Laugh

 

The other thought I had is, just to perform a simple take down of the rifle, it is not necessary to unscrew the magazine tube completely and remove it from the rifle.  I think most of us just unscrew it far enough so the magazine follower clears the receiver.  

Again, thanks for your efforts.  I learned from your video and I appreciate that opportunity.

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January 3, 2021 - 4:02 pm
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Chuck said

I liked this video the best.  How about a little one on removing the forend cap and magazine tube?  I have seen a lot of swirled tubes and scratched barrels.  

I would like to learn the proper way of removing the forend wood, and forend cap from an 1894 rifle.

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January 3, 2021 - 4:20 pm
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tionesta1 said

I would like to learn the proper way of removing the forend wood, and forend cap from an 1894 rifle.  

I would be up for that as well.  I shy away from doing it.  Often the main motivation to do this is to see what is stamped on the under side of the barrel.  For me, it’s not worth the potential for scratches.  However, if I had a tutorial, I’d likely give it a try.

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January 3, 2021 - 4:25 pm
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For Steve and others that may be interested.  Some years ago I bought an 1886 in .33 caliber with a stainless barrel.  Rifle was lightly used, but it would absolutely not come apart (yeah, it was a takedown).  For days I soaked the barrel shank that was exposed in the action, plus the joint, with Kroil.  I would try warming up the area with a hair dryer hoping after it cooled it would also help suck Kroil into the various places.  I would tap on the receiver with a rubber mallet.  Finally, one day, using the most twisting force i could by hand, I heard a loud crack and it came apart.  The interrupted threads of the barrel shank were dry (not even Kroil on them). In my estimation, there was dissimilar metals galvanization and thus corrosion.  It is back together with a generous coating of grease on the threads!  Now, why take it apart?  Just because it was supposed to come apart!  It is very tight going back together even with the grease.  I doubt it had ever been apart before.  Tim

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January 3, 2021 - 4:31 pm
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Chuck said

I liked this video the best.  How about a little one on removing the forend cap and magazine tube?  I have seen a lot of swirled tubes and scratched barrels.  

Thanks Chuck!  Boy, some of those magazine tubes can really glue themselves in there, can’t they?  Next time I come across a particularly difficult one, I’ll do my best to show it.  Luckily, I can edit out any colorful language that may creep into the video. Wink

rwsem said
Suddenly, I want to go find a loose takedown rifle for sale….  nice information, thanks.  

Haha!  You’re like me.  When I learn a new skill or trick, I immediately want to go try it out.  Good luck on your search. Smile

steve004 said
Mark – great video!  Very informative.  I agree with Chuck, I liked this one the best of your videos.

My Dad had an ’86 .38-56 with a full magazine that was a takedown rifle.  As a teenager and a young man, I recall we were never able to take it down.  There was no evidence of shimming.  I don’t know if it had been ever taken apart.  I wonder with some of these (that haven’t been cared for well) if the metal on metal of aspect – results in the two pieces rusting together?  It wouldn’t surprise me if that was common on those that have gone scores of years without being taken down and lubricated.  Rust can be a formidable weld.  We applied a lot of penetrating oil on the joint but I suspect it didn’t make it in very far.  We never went as far as using a vice/action wrench.  We were smart enough to not want to risk doing any harm.  We also had no pragmatic reason to take it apart (we didn’t need to travel by train with it Laugh

 

The other thought I had is, just to perform a simple take down of the rifle, it is not necessary to unscrew the magazine tube completely and remove it from the rifle.  I think most of us just unscrew it far enough so the magazine follower clears the receiver.  

Again, thanks for your efforts.  I learned from your video and I appreciate that opportunity.  

Thanks Steve and great points.  That brings up a point I intended to make in the video, but forgot. If you don’t need to take them down, don’t.  Every time you take them down, you increase the chance that they will loosen up.  Although I believe they should be taken down and oiled before they are put away for long term storage or if they’ve been exposed to moisture.  This goes a long way towards preventing them from locking up like the ’86 you described.

It would bother me too much to have a takedown that wouldn’t takedown (like the ’94 I used for the video).  That one was stuck tight and took nearly as much force as needed to remove a barrel.  BTW, I’ve never harmed a barrel or receiver with a barrel vice or action wrench.  Of course, most people don’t have a 20 ton barrel vice like that one I made.  No way a barrel is going to slip and get marred in that one.Smile

Most will come apart by: 1) a 24-48 hour soak in Kroil (it’s amazing how much will get down into the threads when removing a barrel) 2) While the Kroil is soaking, rap on it from time to time with a non-marring hammer.  Tap on a place near the joint that won’t be seen, like the front of the receiver extension with the forend removed  3) Apply gentle heat – I put a heat lamp over it for 30 minutes.   The combination of Kroil, heat and light shock will nearly always do the trick.  That may be a subject for another episode, but this episode was already running longer than I like to make them.

You are right that the mag tube only needs to come out far enough to clear in order to take down the rifle.  However, now you have an unsecured part that’s loose in the forend.  If you’re just going to take the rifle down and immediately put it back together, leave it in.  In my case, I needed it out of the way for the adjustment.  Also, I’m pretty sure that while I was handling it, I would have got distracted and at some point it would have slid out and gone skittering across the floor.Cry  Better to secure it unless it’s immediately going right back together.

Thanks so much for watching, commenting and the compliment.  Mark

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January 3, 2021 - 5:38 pm
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Good job, shop portion was a good addition. How did the 1894 shoot? 

Thanks for mentioning the part about moving the bolt back before attempting to take it down. I have an old (M-word) takedown that suffered a bit at the hands of someone who wasn’t up to speed and I got to learn how to replace an extractor after buying it at an auction. IIRC the adjustment looked a lot like the 1895 but quite a bit smaller. 

The 1885 shotgun brought back memories. I had a chance to buy one very early in my collecting career but didn’t quite know what I was looking at. Still kicking myself over that one. Too soon old, too late smart.

I like some of the suggestions above. Most of us have or will deal with something stuck as we deal with old rifles. Maybe an overview on how to evaluate, approach and avoid these issues and maybe a quick tutorial on screw repair for when things go wrong or when we buy Bubba’s old gun. 

 

Mike

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January 3, 2021 - 5:46 pm
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tim tomlinson said
For Steve and others that may be interested.  Some years ago I bought an 1886 in .33 caliber with a stainless barrel.  Rifle was lightly used, but it would absolutely not come apart (yeah, it was a takedown).  For days I soaked the barrel shank that was exposed in the action, plus the joint, with Kroil.  I would try warming up the area with a hair dryer hoping after it cooled it would also help suck Kroil into the various places.  I would tap on the receiver with a rubber mallet.  Finally, one day, using the most twisting force i could by hand, I heard a loud crack and it came apart.  The interrupted threads of the barrel shank were dry (not even Kroil on them). In my estimation, there was dissimilar metals galvanization and thus corrosion.  It is back together with a generous coating of grease on the threads!  Now, why take it apart?  Just because it was supposed to come apart!  It is very tight going back together even with the grease.  I doubt it had ever been apart before.  Tim  

Tim – I think you have to book a hunt somewhere that you can travel there by train.  Then, you can place your .33 in a takedown case and the pair of you will be set for adventure.  In my mind, you are ahead of the game as you are bringing a great rifle in a great cartridge Cool

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January 3, 2021 - 6:01 pm
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Mark Douglas said

Chuck said

I liked this video the best.  How about a little one on removing the forend cap and magazine tube?  I have seen a lot of swirled tubes and scratched barrels.  

Thanks Chuck!  Boy, some of those magazine tubes can really glue themselves in there, can’t they?  Next time I come across a particularly difficult one, I’ll do my best to show it.  Luckily, I can edit out any colorful language that may creep into the video. Wink

rwsem said
Suddenly, I want to go find a loose takedown rifle for sale….  nice information, thanks.  

Haha!  You’re like me.  When I learn a new skill or trick, I immediately want to go try it out.  Good luck on your search. Smile

steve004 said
Mark – great video!  Very informative.  I agree with Chuck, I liked this one the best of your videos.

My Dad had an ’86 .38-56 with a full magazine that was a takedown rifle.  As a teenager and a young man, I recall we were never able to take it down.  There was no evidence of shimming.  I don’t know if it had been ever taken apart.  I wonder with some of these (that haven’t been cared for well) if the metal on metal of aspect – results in the two pieces rusting together?  It wouldn’t surprise me if that was common on those that have gone scores of years without being taken down and lubricated.  Rust can be a formidable weld.  We applied a lot of penetrating oil on the joint but I suspect it didn’t make it in very far.  We never went as far as using a vice/action wrench.  We were smart enough to not want to risk doing any harm.  We also had no pragmatic reason to take it apart (we didn’t need to travel by train with it Laugh

 

The other thought I had is, just to perform a simple take down of the rifle, it is not necessary to unscrew the magazine tube completely and remove it from the rifle.  I think most of us just unscrew it far enough so the magazine follower clears the receiver.  

Again, thanks for your efforts.  I learned from your video and I appreciate that opportunity.  

Thanks Steve and great points.  That brings up a point I intended to make in the video, but forgot. If you don’t need to take them down, don’t.  Every time you take them down, you increase the chance that they will loosen up.  Although I believe they should be taken down and oiled before they are put away for long term storage or if they’ve been exposed to moisture.  This goes a long way towards preventing them from locking up like the ’86 you described.

It would bother me too much to have a takedown that wouldn’t takedown (like the ’94 I used for the video).  That one was stuck tight and took nearly as much force as needed to remove a barrel.  BTW, I’ve never harmed a barrel or receiver with a barrel vice or action wrench.  Of course, most people don’t have a 20 ton barrel vice like that one I made.  No way a barrel is going to slip and get marred in that one.Smile

Most will come apart by: 1) a 24-48 hour soak in Kroil (it’s amazing how much will get down into the threads when removing a barrel) 2) While the Kroil is soaking, rap on it from time to time with a non-marring hammer.  Tap on a place near the joint that won’t be seen, like the front of the receiver extension with the forend removed  3) Apply gentle heat – I put a heat lamp over it for 30 minutes.   The combination of Kroil, heat and light shock will nearly always do the trick.  That may be a subject for another episode, but this episode was already running longer than I like to make them.

You are right that the mag tube only needs to come out far enough to clear in order to take down the rifle.  However, now you have an unsecured part that’s loose in the forend.  If you’re just going to take the rifle down and immediately put it back together, leave it in.  In my case, I needed it out of the way for the adjustment.  Also, I’m pretty sure that while I was handling it, I would have got distracted and at some point it would have slid out and gone skittering across the floor.Cry  Better to secure it unless it’s immediately going right back together.

Thanks so much for watching, commenting and the compliment.  Mark  

Mark –

Again, your suggestions and comments are informative and helpful.  I was thinking about Mike’s suggested topic of educating others in evaluating rifles they are considering purchasing.  Obviously, this goes so much better when you can hold the rifle in your hand.  In that setting, your have more opportunity but there is also some etiquette to consider.  If I were seriously considering purchasing a takedown rifle, I want to take it down – or see it taken down.  I wanted to know if it’s stuck or rusted shut.  I know if I were on the seller side of the gunshow table, some stranger asking to perform the take down operation on my rifle wouldn’t be all that welcome.  I would offer to do it for them.

Ironically, if I were on the buyer side of the table, I would have apprehension about asking the seller to do it for me.  How do I know the seller is experienced with the proper procedure?  How do I know if he’s ever done it before, or even then, has he done it incorrectly in the past.  If I am seriously considering purchasing the rifle, I don’t want to have some brand new scratches on the barrel.  Again, the etiquette involved – how receptive is the seller to unsolicited instruction?  This would be similar to purchasing a rifle from an internet seller.  Sometimes, I really want to know what is marked on the underside of the barrel – but do I necessarily want the seller to remove the forearm?  Once Mark does his video tutorial Wink of this, I could send a link the the seller.

Great discussion! 

Edit:  my comments and concerns apply much less to the M1895 takedown rifle.  With that rifle, as long as the bolt is open far enough that the extractor is clear, there’s a lot less to go wrong.  Too bad ’95 takedown rifles are so darn scarce!

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January 4, 2021 - 4:51 am
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Never stop the giggles!  Excellent video, Mark.  Thank you.

 

We have several 1894 takedowns in the family.  I’ve adjusted a couple using the screws, but your punch instruction is a better method.  The screws really are easily ruined.

I’m wondering…Why do you tap with the punch while the takedown collar is against the receiver?  If the collar were out, wouldn’t the metal move with fewer whacks/less force.  Doesn’t the receiver impede the dimpling?

Also, how easy is it to blow out the metal with the punch, creating a hole in the collar?  Or is that the reason for keeping the receiver attached?

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