Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Winchester Receiver Steels
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Great Basin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 490
Member Since:
November 27, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
March 3, 2024 - 5:31 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

This is a follow up to the hardness testing I did recently to try to identify Winchester barrel steels.  This time, I used the Rockwell hardness tester to try to identify the receiver steels used in the levergun era.  As a bonus, I tested a few other parts and even a gunmetal frame.  Mark

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4596
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
March 3, 2024 - 5:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Keep em coming Mark.  Laugh

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1722
Member Since:
June 4, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
March 3, 2024 - 7:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

  Mark,

 Very educational, now I know. I was surprised by how hard that gun metal receiver was and the fact Winchester stayed with mild steel on lever receivers. I expect it was easier to machine.  Thanks for your time, greatly appreciated.  T/R

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10814
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
March 3, 2024 - 8:18 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Mark,

Interesting video and findings… however, I believe that it would be of benefit to test more than (1) Model 71.

Per the original Winchester advertisement document for the Model 71 (sentence no. 3), and the 1938 catalog, Winchester very clearly stated that the receiver frames were “heat treated Proof Steel“.

Bert

New-Winchester-Universal-Big-Game-Rifle-Mdl-71-LiteratureD-E-F.jpgImage Enlarger1938_Salesman_Catalog-cropped.jpgImage Enlarger

 

 

p.s if you would like digital copies of the documents pictured above, shoot me an email.

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Great Basin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 490
Member Since:
November 27, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
March 3, 2024 - 8:25 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert H. said
Mark,

Interesting video and findings… however, I believe that it would be of benefit to test more than (1) Model 71.

Per the original Winchester advertisement document for the Model 71 (sentence no. 3), and the 1938 catalog, Winchester very clearly stated that the receiver frames were “heat treated Proof Steel“.

Bert

New-Winchester-Universal-Big-Game-Rifle-Mdl-71-LiteratureD-E-F.jpgImage Enlarger1938_Salesman_Catalog-cropped.jpgImage Enlarger

 

 

p.s if you would like digital copies of the documents pictured above, shoot me an email.

  

Yes, I was as surprised as you by the results of the test on the 71 I have and even mentioned that I expected it to be proof steel.  I did go back after making the video and tested the side of the upper tang twice with the same result as I got on the lower tang.  I can’t explain it either.  Mark

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10814
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
March 3, 2024 - 8:30 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Mark Douglas said

Bert H. said

Mark,

Interesting video and findings… however, I believe that it would be of benefit to test more than (1) Model 71.

Per the original Winchester advertisement document for the Model 71 (sentence no. 3), and the 1938 catalog, Winchester very clearly stated that the receiver frames were “heat treated Proof Steel“.

Bert

New-Winchester-Universal-Big-Game-Rifle-Mdl-71-LiteratureD-E-F.jpgImage Enlarger1938_Salesman_Catalog-cropped.jpgImage Enlarger

 

 

p.s if you would like digital copies of the documents pictured above, shoot me an email.

  

Yes, I was as surprised as you by the results of the test on the 71 I have and even mentioned that I expected it to be proof steel.  I did go back after making the video and tested the side of the upper tang twice with the same result as I got on the lower tang.  I can’t explain it either.  Mark

  

I have to wonder if Winchester changed back to mild steel after WW II.  The receiver you tested was a relatively late production rifle.

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Great Basin
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 490
Member Since:
November 27, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
March 3, 2024 - 8:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Bert, I was thinking along the same lines.  The bean counters at Olin may have got involved in a cost-cutting move.  It makes me wonder if there was possibly a change back to mild steel receivers when they changed from the long tang version to the short tang.  This one is a short tang made in 1952.  I would sure like to test a pre-war 71 and compare the results.  Mark

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 10814
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
March 3, 2024 - 9:12 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Mark Douglas said
Bert, I was thinking along the same lines.  The bean counters at Olin may have got involved in a cost-cutting move.  It makes me wonder if there was possibly a change back to mild steel receivers when they changed from the long tang version to the short tang.  This one is a short tang made in 1952.  I would sure like to test a pre-war 71 and compare the results.  Mark

  

More mysteries & questions to be solved & answered!

WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 142
Member Since:
December 9, 2002
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
March 4, 2024 - 12:18 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Extremely interesting!

 

Anthony

Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 5015
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
March 4, 2024 - 1:18 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

My theory is that Henry and later Browning built a fair bit of margin of error in the design of their guns. I think they understood metallurgy much better than we may give them credit but they overbuilt anyway. That said, the comparison of gun metal to iron is a bit puzzling. Smokeless powder was a game-changer but alloy updates were apparently focused on barrel steel. The consistency and quality of steel from 1860 to about 1920 is pretty impressive considering the technology available then vs. now. With every video, Mark, I gain a new respect for the craftsmen who built the Winchesters we love.

Food for thought, thanks Mark!

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4596
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
March 4, 2024 - 5:30 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

This a very interesting topic.  Just think what is going on now with all of the composite parts in place of metal. 

Avatar
North D/FW
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 242
Member Since:
April 30, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
March 4, 2024 - 5:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Chuck said
This a very interesting topic.  Just think what is going on now with all of the composite parts in place of metal. 

  

Mark, you could turn this into a recurring series….I’d even enjoy seeing some of those modern things tested and compared!

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4596
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
March 4, 2024 - 6:03 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

I don’t know how to test the new products but they obviously are strong enough. 

I’m not one that bashes the newer guns.  I have a few and shoot the crap out of them.  I can wear out a barrel to hunting standards in less than a year .  The only guns I don’t shoot are my percussion guns because of the hassles with loading and cleaning.

Maybe Winchester was saving money but they knew they were still safe.  The barrel and bolt absorb the worst pressure.

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6354
TXGunNut: 5015
Chuck: 4596
1873man: 4317
steve004: 4244
Big Larry: 2338
twobit: 2293
mrcvs: 1723
TR: 1722
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 12736
Posts: 110926

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1758
Members: 8842
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation