Avatar
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Winchester model 70 .220 swift.
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
March 15, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
March 15, 2022 - 8:21 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

I have a 1946 (5-digit serial#) Winchester model 70 chambered in .220 swift. It is in Very good to excellent condition with original sling and has a period Lyman Super Target Spot 20x scope attached. i really think the scope was mounted right after the rifle was bought. I’ve had it bore-scoped and throat, barrel, etc. are in perfect condition. i am curious what the general market value of this rifle/scope combo would be. I can post pics. if needed.  Thanks in advance, Keith.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 347
Member Since:
February 18, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
March 19, 2022 - 8:49 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

HI Keith.  I’m not the one to answer your question directly.  My ‘appearance’ here is within my belief that every question posed in ‘relevant and good faith’ context deserves at least acknowledgment. My remarks here are peripheral in commenting on your information in simple formula of stating what your rifle is not. 

The ‘not’, to my understanding as portrayed here, of “collector interest”. According to the serial number it would not have been “factory tapped” for a telescopic sight absent some specific individual circumstance.  Without some credible proof supporting such aberration, the conclusive presumption “aftermarket alteration from factory specs”.  The fact of time frame proximate alteration to rifle production, even as provable, appears irrelevant.    

As rifle value is moved to “functional”, the gun itself as well as the chambering, IF judged against contemporary target rifles, simply ‘not’ in my opinion, compete well. Your ‘buyer’ will be more extraordinary than ordinary.  Such “market value” difficult to predict as a ‘occasional sales of somewhat similar rifles’ do not constitute a “market”.  

I do hope you receive other, perhaps more qualified opinions here.

Just my take.

Good luck and…

Best!

John

Avatar
Winchester, VA
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1031
Member Since:
November 5, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
March 19, 2022 - 9:52 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Hi Keith-

A couple things will have a big impact on value, so check them out…

1)  1946 was the year that the pre-war type I receiver (which has a roll marked top surface on the bridge and was NOT drilled and tapped) was changed to the “transition” type II receiver (which still has the cloverleaf tang but has a smooth top bridge that WAS factory D&T).  Note that ALL pre-64 M70s had two 6-48 holes D&T on top of the receiver ring and two 6-48 holes D&T on the left rear of the receiver for mounting a receiver sight). 

So… Your rifle might or might not have a drilled bridge and be correct, depending on whether it’s a pre-war or transition type recevier.

2) Excepting target models, NO pre-64 M70 had hole D&T on the BARREL to mount a scope block.  The only way to install a Lyman STS without adding holes is to use the holes on the front receiver ring for the rear block and a “cross dovetail” block (like the Lyman or Unertl ‘BK’ block in the dovetail on the barrel that originally held the rear sight).

So… Again, it’s possible your 1946 gun could be wearing a period Lymans STS and be unaltered from the factory except for removal of a rear sight.

Without knowing the answers to those questions it’s hard to ballpark a value, since “collector guns” in general have to be unaltered, and the difference between the retail value a collector gun and a really nice ‘shooter’ can be 50%.  I know that as a Guest you cannot post photos, but you can either use a third party photo hosting service and post the URL, or you can send me some photos and I’ll post them for you.  My e-mail is [email protected].  If you send me pics, note that my e-mail server gags at attachments >20MB and that the WACA site likes photos of about 1MB best.

Whatever the outcome, it sounds like you have a nice vintage rifle.  It would be worth your while, if you’re going to sell, for you to know whether you’re marketing to ‘collectors’ or ‘shooters’…

To quote John… “Just my take”… Wink

Lou

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

WACA-Signauture-3.jpg

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6657
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
4
March 19, 2022 - 10:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Without the wooden case, scope worth about $800. 

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
March 15, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
March 20, 2022 - 11:32 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Thanks so much for all of the knowledgeable comments fellows. i am a novice at pre 64 model 70’s and know about enough to get in trouble…..

Lou, I’ve sent a few pics. of the mounting of the Lyman to the e-mail you provided. any further help would be educational and welcome.

Thanks, Keith.

Avatar
Winchester, VA
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1031
Member Since:
November 5, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
March 21, 2022 - 1:12 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Here are the photos Keith sent me of the scope installation on his 220 SWIFT. 

01.JPGImage Enlarger02.JPGImage Enlarger03.JPGImage Enlarger04.JPGImage Enlarger05.JPGImage Enlarger

The pics are kind of blurry.  But the scope is mounted using the two factory holes on the forward receiver ring and a cross dovetail block in the rear sight dovetail on the barrel.  No extra holes that I can see… Laugh  The only thing that appears to be missing is the Win 22G rear sight… 

The rifle has a pre-war bolt but I cannot make out whether the top of the bridge is smooth (transition receiver) or clip slotted and roll marked (pre-war receiver).  There were a fair number of “hybrids” made during this overlap period.

So back to the OP’s question… Anyone want to estimate a value assuming a nice condition pre-war/transition 220 SWIFT standard rifle with NO non-factory alterations to receiver or barrel?  

Best,

Lou

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments

WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters

WACA-Signauture-3.jpg

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 6657
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online
7
March 21, 2022 - 3:47 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost

Louis Luttrell said  appears to be missing is the Win 22G rear sight… 
 

Good riddance!  Open sights on a Swift??? 

Probably it’s due to some peculiarity of the reflected light, but the finish on the rear mount doesn’t look exactly right; it’s blued steel, isn’t it?

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4739
Member Since:
March 31, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
March 21, 2022 - 4:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

Keith, next time you take pictures don’t have your camera so close to the subject.  Every camera has a minimum distance that it can focus.  Back off another 6″ or so.

Avatar
Member
WACA Guest
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
March 15, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
March 21, 2022 - 9:53 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost

 Apologies on the blurry pictures, the finish on both mounts are shiny black, not painted but the finish is not blued steel. They both appear to be Lyman factory mount rings as they both fit the scope perfectly. They have the same finish as the scope itself. The front cross dovetailed block is blued steel. As for the bolt receiver, the top of the bridge is clip slotted and roll marked. (Series of horizontal lines like knurling). I will endeavor to take better pictures if needed.  Thanks for all your insight and knowledge on this for me.  Keith Ertel.

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 778
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
clarence: 6657
TXGunNut: 5277
Chuck: 4739
steve004: 4410
1873man: 4369
Big Larry: 2384
twobit: 2326
mrcvs: 1804
TR: 1742
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 17
Topics: 13045
Posts: 114166

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1820
Members: 9007
Moderators: 4
Admins: 3
Navigation