I have a 1946 (5-digit serial#) Winchester model 70 chambered in .220 swift. It is in Very good to excellent condition with original sling and has a period Lyman Super Target Spot 20x scope attached. i really think the scope was mounted right after the rifle was bought. I’ve had it bore-scoped and throat, barrel, etc. are in perfect condition. i am curious what the general market value of this rifle/scope combo would be. I can post pics. if needed. Thanks in advance, Keith.
HI Keith. I’m not the one to answer your question directly. My ‘appearance’ here is within my belief that every question posed in ‘relevant and good faith’ context deserves at least acknowledgment. My remarks here are peripheral in commenting on your information in simple formula of stating what your rifle is not.
The ‘not’, to my understanding as portrayed here, of “collector interest”. According to the serial number it would not have been “factory tapped” for a telescopic sight absent some specific individual circumstance. Without some credible proof supporting such aberration, the conclusive presumption “aftermarket alteration from factory specs”. The fact of time frame proximate alteration to rifle production, even as provable, appears irrelevant.
As rifle value is moved to “functional”, the gun itself as well as the chambering, IF judged against contemporary target rifles, simply ‘not’ in my opinion, compete well. Your ‘buyer’ will be more extraordinary than ordinary. Such “market value” difficult to predict as a ‘occasional sales of somewhat similar rifles’ do not constitute a “market”.
I do hope you receive other, perhaps more qualified opinions here.
Just my take.
Good luck and…
Best!
John
November 5, 2014
Hi Keith-
A couple things will have a big impact on value, so check them out…
1) 1946 was the year that the pre-war type I receiver (which has a roll marked top surface on the bridge and was NOT drilled and tapped) was changed to the “transition” type II receiver (which still has the cloverleaf tang but has a smooth top bridge that WAS factory D&T). Note that ALL pre-64 M70s had two 6-48 holes D&T on top of the receiver ring and two 6-48 holes D&T on the left rear of the receiver for mounting a receiver sight).
So… Your rifle might or might not have a drilled bridge and be correct, depending on whether it’s a pre-war or transition type recevier.
2) Excepting target models, NO pre-64 M70 had hole D&T on the BARREL to mount a scope block. The only way to install a Lyman STS without adding holes is to use the holes on the front receiver ring for the rear block and a “cross dovetail” block (like the Lyman or Unertl ‘BK’ block in the dovetail on the barrel that originally held the rear sight).
So… Again, it’s possible your 1946 gun could be wearing a period Lymans STS and be unaltered from the factory except for removal of a rear sight.
Without knowing the answers to those questions it’s hard to ballpark a value, since “collector guns” in general have to be unaltered, and the difference between the retail value a collector gun and a really nice ‘shooter’ can be 50%. I know that as a Guest you cannot post photos, but you can either use a third party photo hosting service and post the URL, or you can send me some photos and I’ll post them for you. My e-mail is [email protected]. If you send me pics, note that my e-mail server gags at attachments >20MB and that the WACA site likes photos of about 1MB best.
Whatever the outcome, it sounds like you have a nice vintage rifle. It would be worth your while, if you’re going to sell, for you to know whether you’re marketing to ‘collectors’ or ‘shooters’…
To quote John… “Just my take”…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Thanks so much for all of the knowledgeable comments fellows. i am a novice at pre 64 model 70’s and know about enough to get in trouble…..
Lou, I’ve sent a few pics. of the mounting of the Lyman to the e-mail you provided. any further help would be educational and welcome.
Thanks, Keith.
November 5, 2014
Here are the photos Keith sent me of the scope installation on his 220 SWIFT.
The pics are kind of blurry. But the scope is mounted using the two factory holes on the forward receiver ring and a cross dovetail block in the rear sight dovetail on the barrel. No extra holes that I can see… The only thing that appears to be missing is the Win 22G rear sight…
The rifle has a pre-war bolt but I cannot make out whether the top of the bridge is smooth (transition receiver) or clip slotted and roll marked (pre-war receiver). There were a fair number of “hybrids” made during this overlap period.
So back to the OP’s question… Anyone want to estimate a value assuming a nice condition pre-war/transition 220 SWIFT standard rifle with NO non-factory alterations to receiver or barrel?
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Apologies on the blurry pictures, the finish on both mounts are shiny black, not painted but the finish is not blued steel. They both appear to be Lyman factory mount rings as they both fit the scope perfectly. They have the same finish as the scope itself. The front cross dovetailed block is blued steel. As for the bolt receiver, the top of the bridge is clip slotted and roll marked. (Series of horizontal lines like knurling). I will endeavor to take better pictures if needed. Thanks for all your insight and knowledge on this for me. Keith Ertel.
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