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Some time ago I read ( can not find it now ) that the model 70 – 22 Hornet had two different bore sizes (bullet diameter). I would appreciate help in relocating this article or any comments. Thank You. RR
Sure you aren’t thinking of the two different bullet diameters that were available–.223 for rechambered .22LR bores, & .224 for factory Hornets?
clarence said
Sure you aren’t thinking of the two different bullet diameters that were available–.223 for rechambered .22LR bores, & .224 for factory Hornets?
Clarence;
Yes you are probably right. It was a long time ago that I was reading about reloading for a 22 Hornet. The article was using different bullet sizes and for some reason I got the idea that Winchester changed the rifling to stablize a different bullet weight. I know the Remington 700 244 caliber changed their rifling to stablize a heavier bullet ( calling it 6mm ). I appreciate your comment. RR
The .223″ dia bullet was for the factory Model 54,70 and 43 rifles. The .224″ bullet was primarily for custom rifles chambered for 22 Hornet with conventional .224″ bore barrels. I have used both .223″ & .224″ bullets in my Model 70’s, and both shoot well, with no problems. One other aspect to consider when loading your Model 70 Hornet is that the barrel has a 1-16″ twist, and does not shoot the heavier/longer bullets accurately. I have found best accuracy staying with the 40 grain bullets designed specifically for the Hornet.
Steve
seewin said
The .223″ dia bullet was for the factory Model 54,70 and 43 rifles. The .224″ bullet was primarily for custom rifles chambered for 22 Hornet with conventional .224″ bore barrels. I have used both .223″ & .224″ bullets in my Model 70’s, and both shoot well, with no problems. One other aspect to consider when loading your Model 70 Hornet is that the barrel has a 1-16″ twist, and does not shoot the heavier/longer bullets accurately. I have found best accuracy staying with the 40 grain bullets designed specifically for the Hornet.Steve
1 in 16? That’s pretty slow. The 5.56/.223 (.224″) rifles of today have a 1 in 9 to a 1 in 7. How heavy of a bullet can you shoot the Hornet? You know I’m completely out of my element when it comes to Model 70’s.
It is more a function of length than weight as far as stabilization, although typically they go hand in hand. I have heard of people shooting 50 grain bullets in them, but would have to see it to believe it, at least with 16 twist. They were designed for 40 & 45 grain bullets which were flat base and not very aerodynamic by today’s standards. I once tried 50 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips in one of mine and accuracy was terrible. Went back to the 45 grain Speer Hornet bullets and groups went immediately to consistently sub 3/4″.
The more common twist for 22 CF varmint calibers such as 222, 223, 22-250 etc is 14 twist, and I can shoot up to and including 60 grain bullets in those. Once I move past 70 grain bullets, I go to an 8 twist.
Steve
seewin said
The .223″ dia bullet was for the factory Model 54,70 and 43 rifles. The .224″ bullet was primarily for custom rifles chambered for 22 Hornet with conventional .224″ bore barrels.
Rather odd that .224″ came to be “conventional,” when earlier .22 CFs like .22 WCF & .22 Hi-Power, were .228 or .226. If the Hornet’s development in rechambered .22RFs was the only factor, why wouldn’t .223 now be standard?
clarence said
seewin said
The .223″ dia bullet was for the factory Model 54,70 and 43 rifles. The .224″ bullet was primarily for custom rifles chambered for 22 Hornet with conventional .224″ bore barrels.Rather odd that .224″ came to be “conventional,” when earlier .22 CFs like .22 WCF & .22 Hi-Power, were .228 or .226. If the Hornet’s development in rechambered .22RFs was the only factor, why wouldn’t .223 now be standard?
Who know’s, I think a lot of it was “pride of authorship”. When another manufacturer came out with a new cartridge, they felt they had the perfect formula for success, and designed their rifle & cartridge to fit these needs….kind of like engine displacements in cars. We had the 425,426,a couple of 427’s, a 428, 429 and 430..perhaps just marketing ploys.
It is interesting to note that along with the original Winchester 1912 blueprint for the 22 Hi Power cartridge is a series separate typed page with all the changes made to its design. One of the noteworthy changes was a change decreasing the body diameter of bullet from .2275″/.228″ to .2255″/.226″. Reason for change was increased accuracy. It would be interesting to know if other manufacturers of this cartridge followed suite?
Steve
If I recall correctly the .22 Hornet was developed through the tinkering of several Springfield Armory people (whose names I can’t remember) that had access to nickel steel barrels made for the Model 1922 and M2 .22 caliber bolt action rifles. The standard .22 long rifle barrel had a one in sixteen inch twist and a .222/223 land to land diameter. At the time I believe there were no commercially available 22 caliber nickel steel barrels. Previously all centerfire 22 caliber barrels had .228 bores.
seewin said
Who know’s, I think a lot of it was “pride of authorship”. When another manufacturer came out with a new cartridge, they felt they had the perfect formula for success, and designed their rifle & cartridge to fit these needs….kind of like engine displacements in cars. We had the 425,426,a couple of 427’s, a 428, 429 and 430..perhaps just marketing ploys.
It is interesting to note that along with the original Winchester 1912 blueprint for the 22 Hi Power cartridge is a series separate typed page with all the changes made to its design. One of the noteworthy changes was a change decreasing the body diameter of bullet from .2275″/.228″ to .2255″/.226″. Reason for change was increased accuracy. It would be interesting to know if other manufacturers of this cartridge followed suite?
Steve
Steve – Interesting points you make. The car engine displacements remind me of the .22 centerfire cartridge names with .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, .220 Swift, .221 Fireball, .222 Remington, .223 Remington, .224 Weatherby and .225 Winchester, all bearing striking similarity as far as the diameter of the bullet that went down the barrel. The names (i.e. the bullet diameter part) has often amused me. For example, the .38/40 is really a .40/40 and so on. A while ago I challenged someone to name a single modern .44 caliber rifle or pistol cartridge (i.e. that took a .44 caliber bullet). The person went on and on – .44 magnum, .44/40, .44 special, .444 Marlin, .44 automag, .440 cor-bon .445 supermag… he probably named a few others. But I just said, nope on all of them. We did finally see some truth in advertising in 2018. Desert Eagle took their .50 Action Express case and necked it down to take, “.44” caliber bullets – and the name of this new cartridge is the .429 Desert Eagle!
Another interesting point you made is on the .22HP. I’ve never owned a .22 Hornet but the same would not be true of the .22HP. In fact, there’s a Savage M1899H that’s been here for a couple decades along with loading dies, bullets, brass and so on. I have read a fair bit about loading for the .22HP and it seems most those who do it talk about the desirability of the .228 bullet. In fact, the (now discontinued) Hornady .227 bullet was often shunned because it was not .228 (or .229) diameter. There have been small custom bullet makers who have made bullets for the .22HP specifically, and they generally chose .228 diameter. So, your report of Winchester decreasing the body diameter to .2255″/.226″ (for increasing accuracy) was of great interest.
November 7, 2015
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seewin said
Who know’s, I think a lot of it was “pride of authorship”. When another manufacturer came out with a new cartridge, they felt they had the perfect formula for success, and designed their rifle & cartridge to fit these needs….kind of like engine displacements in cars. We had the 425,426,a couple of 427’s, a 428, 429 and 430..perhaps just marketing ploys.
(SNIP!)
Steve
Speaking strictly for the Fords (427, 428 and 429) they were probably better off with their own numbers as they had very little in common. Ford had the poor judgement of building three different 351’s; the Cleveland, Windsor and Modified. The Cleveland and Modified had some common characteristics but the Windsor was a totally different critter until someone discovered some parts could be swapped around to create a fourth…nevermind, this IS a Winchester site. 😉
Cool (or frustrating) thing about the Hornet is that once you study this cartridge you begin to understand how truly versatile this caliber is with so many different cartridges, bullet weights and twist rates. The Hornet has a personality all it’s own, I’ve watched my shooting buddy struggle with it and it seems to be his reloading nemesis.
Mike
The 427 is the only one that isn’t a smog era engine. The 428 was a cheaped up version of the 427. The Cleveland has a couple of issues like poor oiling to the bottom end components. There was a relatively easy fix though. All current small block 427’s are a stroked 351. I’m talking about hot rod not factory. Many other engines were built in Cleveland too.
I have a 22 WCF and in my highwall can shoot pretty hot.
Mike Gordon said
If I recall correctly the .22 Hornet was developed through the tinkering of several Springfield Armory people (whose names I can’t remember) that had access to nickel steel barrels made for the Model 1922 and M2 .22 caliber bolt action rifles. The standard .22 long rifle barrel had a one in sixteen inch twist and a .222/223 land to land diameter. At the time I believe there were no commercially available 22 caliber nickel steel barrels.
M1922 barrels were Class A Ordnance steel, not nickel, the composition of which can be found in Hatcher’s Notebook, among other sources. Winchester was making nickel steel (& stainless) barrels for M52s in the late ’20s; I have a .22LR SS built 1911 with a NS barrel.
steve004 said I have read a fair bit about loading for the .22HP and it seems most those who do it talk about the desirability of the .228 bullet. In fact, the (now discontinued) Hornady .227 bullet was often shunned because it was not .228 (or .229) diameter.
Undersized bullets are never conducive to best accuracy, & jacketed bullets aren’t going to expand in the bore like pure lead might (or might not!), whereas bullets oversized by one or two mills may well be more accurate, & don’t raise pressure enough to be concerning, unless the load is already too hot. Best accuracy in my badly eroded .30-40 SS was with 8mm bullets.
My 1934 later A-suffix M-54 has a G&H sidemount with Lyman Alaskan. It also features a Lyman 48W receiver sight.
Both the M-54 and early Model 70s featured 1 in 16 in twist for the Hornet. Mine prefers 45 gr bullets for that twist in its barrel. The G&H mount allows use of the iron sights in case of an emergency.
Finn Aagard in British East Africa relates getting “a hiding” from his father for killing a cape buffalo with a 22 Hornet when a youngster. He was lucky to have survived that encounter. I received this rifle from an uncle, who did state that he shot and killed a white tail buck with one shot through the neck. A well-aimed bullet may do wonders, as the 22 long rifle cartridge has proven.
{ My 405cu in Windsor was a 351 stroked and bored, while being statically and dynamically balanced-like 1960s E-type Jaguar engines.
The 405 sat in a Unique factory version of the AC Cobra, complete with disc brakes all round,and SS braided brake and fuel lines. Ford top loader 4-speed with Holley 750 4-barrel carb. Very impressive motor car that Carroll Shelby started to beat Ferrari. Sold it to a Canadian banker.}
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