Hi! Let me start by saying that I am not an expert and it’s my first time on the forum.
I’m looking for info related to a Winchester Model 1892, smoothbore, S/N 125826, 44-40.
Not sure about the year of manufacture, 1896 or 1899? it was bought during an auction 50 years ago in the North of Italy and according to a written opinion by an expert it was probably used during wild west shows.
Any suggestion to find more info about it?
Cheers
Good morning,
SN 125826 was originally manufactured during 1899 as a standard saddle ring carbine in 44 WCF. If it is currently a smoothbore then the barrel has either been replaced or modified. Do you have photos of the rifle? You can send them to me at [email protected] and I will be happy to take a closer look.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
I’d be curious to know what the barrel markings look like as well.
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
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Doc Carver and other exhibition shooters were fond of smooth-boring the 44 1892. Even old Top admitted to doing so very early in his career when he traveled with a Mexican circus, pedaling a unicycle around a circus ring in the big tent, breaking thrown glass balls with dust shot. The circus owner was happy until the tent came down and he saw all the tiny holes in the canvas. Top never used shot cartridges after that and all his Winchester performances were straight up.
I doubt the barrel on that 92 is a replacement. Any shade tree blacksmith with a lathe and a self-following tool could remove rifling.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Thank you all for your time.
Micheal was very kind and explained me some infos.
Maverick said
I’d be curious to know what the barrel markings look like as well.
There is an “expert analysis”, written in Italian, that highlights some peculiarities. I will try to translate it in English to answer your questions.
…) The imprinted wording allows to identify the weapon “MODEL 1892” and the patent date “PAT OCT 14 1884” (….) (…) From examining the weapon it is clear that the bore of the barrel is smooth” (…) “The weapon has dimensional characteristics of some details (see King loading gate) which do not allow it to chamber 40 44 caliber cartridges” (….)(….) the dimensions of the leading gate are smaller in relation to the 44 40 caliber stamped on the weapon” (…)
(…) Special cartridges have a shortened cased, loaded with a reduced dose of black powder, 20 grains (1.296g) and loaded with shot of 7 ½ of the American number for a weight of ½ ounce (14.2g), contained in a capsule called sabot. This shot cartridge are approximately 28,6mm (1.5 cm shorter than the original one).”
Sorry if this translation is not accurate, but most of the specific gun-related terms are not of common usage.
It’s part of my father collection that we are donating to a museum here in Italy, but we will probably keep this one and some others.
Zebulon said
Doc Carver and other exhibition shooters were fond of smooth-boring the 44 1892. Even old Top admitted to doing so very early in his career when he traveled with a Mexican circus, pedaling a unicycle around a circus ring in the big tent, breaking thrown glass balls with dust shot. The circus owner was happy until the tent came down and he saw all the tiny holes in the canvas. Top never used shot cartridges after that and all his Winchester performances were straight up.I doubt the barrel on that 92 is a replacement. Any shade tree blacksmith with a lathe and a self-following tool could remove rifling.
Thank you, very interesting ! Can I ask who “old Top” is?
Martina
Adolph “Ad” Toepperwein (aka “Top”)
https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/toepperwein-adolph-ad
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
“Old Top” is one of the nicknames that were associated with Adolf Topperwien. He was more commonly referred to a “Ad”. He and his wife “Plinky” were exhibition shooters for Winchester for several decades.
Adolph Toepperwein – Wikipedia
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Rick F said
How rare are factory lettered 1892 44 smoothbore rifles? I’m looking at one and he wants a lot for it
Hello Rick,
Within the first 289,000 Model 1892’s there are 55 documented “Smoothbore” rifles. While they are certainly a rarity as far as a “special order ” item The only way to appreciate them is to look down the barrel!
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
twobit said
Rick F said
How rare are factory lettered 1892 44 smoothbore rifles? I’m looking at one and he wants a lot for it
Hello Rick,
Within the first 289,000 Model 1892’s there are 55 documented “Smoothbore” rifles. While they are certainly a rarity as far as a “special order ” item The only way to appreciate them is to look down the barrel!
Michael
Thank you Michael
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