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Hey Forum members
Came across a gun at a show the other day and was curious if someone could give some insight on how rare a saddle ring carbine is with an ordered rifle butt and a cut dovetail for the front sight ? 
Aim Small ,Miss Small
It is rare but not unheard of. I have come across three consecutive carbines that letter with Globe sights and another one with a Lyman hunting front in the ledgers. A rifle stock is not rare.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Thanks Bob
would these sights on this carbine be the same as a rifle ? Do you have pictures of a examples that would be on this carbine , thanks in advance
Bruce
Aim Small ,Miss Small
bhutch said
Thanks Bobwould these sights on this carbine be the same as a rifle ? Do you have pictures of a examples that would be on this carbine , thanks in advance
Bruce
I’m not Bob but I can answer that the sights mentioned here would have been standard. Possibly a different height for the Rocky Mountain front sight. The sporting rear sight pictured here is from a later catalog. In 1887 it would not have had the adjustment screw.
Do you have photos of the carbine?
I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder
Here are a couple of photos of original Rocky Mountain front and Sporting rear sights in my collection. The Rocky Mountain was offered in different heights.
I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder
Bill Hockett said
Here are a couple of photos of original Rocky Mountain front and Sporting rear sights in my collection. The Rocky Mountain was offered in different heights.
Bill,
What is the height on the R.M. sight you have? I have been looking for one to put back on one of my high-wall Single Shot rifles (CAL. 40-70 SHARPS STR.)
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Those carbines I saw in the ledgers and not physically so I can’t answer that. Like Bill stated the Rocky Mt came in different heights. I would guess on a carbine which has a small muzzle diameter would need a taller front or a shorter rear.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Would it not have to be an early first model 73 sporting rear sight , that is shorter on the shank ? I compared one of these sights above with a 73 carbine in my collection and it seems way to long and won’t fit properly?
thanks for feedback guys
Bruce
Aim Small ,Miss Small
I like the letter, it is rare and interesting. If your gun does not have the original sights finding the correct color, fit, height, and condition will be hard. Then it will require shooting. The gun is special order originally, the front sight might have been trimmed to fit the smaller round barrel of a carbine. They did make rocky mountain model 79 sights with the blade set lower on base. The E, F, and K were set down to .075″.
If it’s sights aren’t original it is worth the time and money to make it right. T/R
bhutch said
Would it not have to be an early first model 73 sporting rear sight , that is shorter on the shank ? I compared one of these sights above with a 73 carbine in my collection and it seems way to long and won’t fit properly?thanks for feedback guys
Bruce w
Bruce,
By 1887 the short base sight had been out of the catalog for three years. Of course the words “always” and “never” don’t fit well in Winchester collecting. I’m attaching photos of my November 1887 vintage 1873 sporting rifle with standard sights. It has sporting front and rear sights. Note the rear sight is the long base variation without the adjustment screw. This sight first showed up in the January 1884 catalog. I would expect that by 1887 the early short base variations had been used up. However, re-read sentence two above.
Where is the dovetail located on your carbine? Sometimes Winchester reversed the rear sights on shorter barreled guns so the dovetail may be closer to the receiver and barrel junction.
Bill
I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder
Bert H. said
Bill Hockett said
Here are a couple of photos of original Rocky Mountain front and Sporting rear sights in my collection. The Rocky Mountain was offered in different heights.
Bill,
What is the height on the R.M. sight you have? I have been looking for one to put back on one of my high-wall Single Shot rifles (CAL. 40-70 SHARPS STR.)
Bert,
The Rocky mountain I have has a .090″ base and is .364″ high. It probably has some wear but I don’t see pitting or file marks. It is closest to what Madis calls a 79C. These are tough to find with any kind of condition.
Bill
I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder
bhutch said
Would it not have to be an early first model 73 sporting rear sight , that is shorter on the shank ? I compared one of these sights above with a 73 carbine in my collection and it seems way to long and won’t fit properly?thanks for feedback guys
Bruce
Bruce,
Pictures of the wear patterns on the barrel might give you a insight as to what sight was on it.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said A rifle stock is not rare.
Not rare, but stupid, as the best thing about carbines, other than reduced wt, is the user-friendly buttplate.
The gun in question, I don’t own yet, and just saw it at a show ,
It did have the early first model sporting rear sight on it . But the gun was in rougher condition as most of these carbines were.
Most of you mentioned that sight was discontinued . Maybe a sporting rear sight installed backwards?
I do think the sights lettering are the real scare option as Bob said .
I appreciate all the insight on the topic .
thanks Bruce
Aim Small ,Miss Small
Only 4.5% of the guns letter with sights.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob ,
4.5% of the 73 rifles ? Or Carbines? Or a combination of both?
I would think that a carbine with sights on the letter especially with a front sight dovetail cut is a rarity?
thanks again Bob and everyone else leaving feedback!
Aim Small ,Miss Small
Bruce,
4.5% of all 73’s
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
Bruce,4.5% of all 73’s
Bob
Bob , what was the total number or percentage of carbines made compared to rifles and muskets?
thanks Bruce
Aim Small ,Miss Small
Bruce,
The breakdown of rifles, carbines and muskets is 79.6%, 17.7% and 2.7% respectively.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
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