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recently saw a winchester 1885 mfg. in 1887 in 32 scf cal.? looked in the cartridges of the world, but saw no reference to it. does anyone know anything about this cartridge? straight, tapered, bottle neck, length? thanks in advance Bill
November 7, 2015
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32 Short Center Fire?
Mike
Bill Sticht said
recently saw a winchester 1885 mfg. in 1887 in 32 scf cal.?
I think someone has misread the marking, or it has been messed with–“.32 WCF” is the only marking that makes sense; in other words, .32-20.
TXGunNut said
32 Short Center Fire?
Mike
There WAS a .32 Short Center Fire, but it was called .32 Short Colt, & was merely the CF version of the old (1860) S&W .32 RF. But because Colt introduced the CF version, their name, rather than S&W, was the one that stuck. Ditto for the .32 Long CF.
Winchester did chamber the SS model in both the .32 RF & CF versions (but presumably in the LW action), but I don’t know how they were marked–probably only .32 Long or Short, as Winchester hated to admit making use of a cartridge originally designed by any competitor.
According to Ray Giles book the 1885 used Winchester cartridges in 32 SCF, LCF, XLCF, 32 Ideal, 32 WCF and the 32-40. It was loaded with the 32 short, long and 32 Xl or extra long rimfires.
Bill Hanzel said
https://auctions.thegunrunner.com/lots/view/1-2B7DEB/winchester-model-1885-high-wall-32-scf-cal-single-shot-rifle-26-octagon-1-barrel-1887-antique
A HW in .32 Short, CF or RF, falls into the “now I’ve seen everything” category. A 32 RF might make slightly more sense, as it was cheap to shoot. Wouldn’t be at all surprised if someone buys this with the intention of re-boring or re-barreling it, as the action alone is worth the current bid price.
Thanks for the information, evidently it was under powered and short lived. Appears now that the original cartridge/case has become very collectable, if you find them.
Bill Sticht said
Thanks for the information, evidently it was under powered and short lived. Appears now that the original cartridge/case has become very collectable, if you find them.
Underpowered, for sure, but popular for a long time–particularly in Marlins & Marlin Ballards with the reversible firing pin that allowed both cheap RF & CF to be fired in the same gun. Original cases are hard to find, but an ebay dealer sells both (reformed) cases and the heel bullets required for this cartridge.
I reamed the chamber of a Ballard in this caliber to accept the very slightly larger cases of the .32 S&W Long, which is a more powerful & much more accurate cartridge still used in some bulls-eye competition, & if I wanted another “project” (I don’t!), I’d buy this HW & do the same.
Online
The rifle in question is one of just three that were factory chamberd for the 32 Short Colt (center fire). It is rare!! All three of the rifles were early production high-walls (low-walls were not in vogue yet). I hope nobody is stupid enough to rebore or ream the chamber!
The following is the list of .32 caliber cartridges factory chambered in the Model 1885;
| Cartridge | Qty |
| 32 W.C.F. | 12,640 |
| 32-40 | 11,175 |
| 32 Short (Rim Fire) | 3,903 |
| 32 Long (Rim Fire) | 3,263 |
| 32 IDEAL | 267 |
| 32 Long (Colt) | 40 |
| 32 EX Long (Rim Fire) | 28 |
| 32 W.S. | 26 |
| 32 Short (Colt) | 3 |
| 32 EX Long (Ballard) | 2 |
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
The rifle in question is one of just three that were factory chambered for the 32 Short Colt (center fire). It is rare!! All three of the rifles were early production high-walls (low-walls were not in vogue yet). I hope nobody is stupid enough to rebore or ream the chamber!The following is the list of .32 caliber cartridges factory chambered in the Model 1885;
Cartridge Qty 32 W.C.F. 12,640 32-40 11,175 32 Short (Rim Fire) 3,903 32 Long (Rim Fire) 3,263 32 IDEAL 267 32 Long (Colt) 40 32 EX Long (Rim Fire) 28 32 W.S. 26 32 Short (Colt) 3 32 EX Long (Ballard) 2 Bert
Hammer price was $1450. Good deal considering its rarity?
RickC said
Hammer price was $1450. Good deal considering its rarity?
Yes, considering tang sight was worth $200, & action alone, $1000; gun could be parted out for more than $1450. Bidders, apparently, weren’t interested in its rarity, or it would have brought more; in fact, it’s “rarity” is what depressed the price. I think same gun in, say, .32 WCF, would have brought $500 more.
clarence said
Yes, considering tang sight was worth $200, & action alone, $1000; gun could be parted out for more than $1450. Bidders, apparently, weren’t interested in its rarity, or it would have brought more; in fact, it’s “rarity” is what depressed the price. I think same gun in, say, .32 WCF, would have brought $500 more.
Clarence I would’ve bought it for that price all day long but I have a soft spot for rare guns versus condition. Not the best collecting strategy but each to his own.
RickC said
Clarence I would’ve bought it for that price all day long but I have a soft spot for rare guns versus condition. Not the best collecting strategy but each to his own.
Well, I have a soft spot for shootable guns versus condition! Cond. of this one doesn’t offend me in the least, & I would prefer it to one having a splotchy, scratched-up, 75% blue.
Though it seems like too incredible a coincidence, I’m beginning to think I once saw this same gun in a Vermont gunshop 30+ yrs ago. What I distinctly remember about that one was it had no finish, had a #1 brl on a HW action (itself odd), & was some kind of .32, but not .32 WCF, or I’d probably have bought it. I might have thought it was one of the common .32 RFs, though it would have made no difference had I known it was .32 Colt.
High-walls with a No. 1 barrel are actually quite common. There were several thousand of them made in the first 15,000 or so Single Shot rifles that were manufactured. Nearly all of the early production Single Shot rifles made in 32, 38, and 44 WCF small shank No. 1 barrels.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
My 85 is a low wall 32 RF. Was lucky to find a couple hundred rounds of the newer Navy Arms ammo. I won’t shoot a box of 50 thru it in my lifetime but nice to have some spares for my son & grand kids some day.
RickC said
My 85 is a low wall 32 RF. Was lucky to find a couple hundred rounds of the newer Navy Arms ammo. I won’t shoot a box of 50 thru it in my lifetime but nice to have some spares for my son & grand kids some day.
Well, maybe the “newer” stuff will do better than 6″ at 50 yds, because that was as good as some I bought 20 yrs ago shot. That was out of a Stevens Favorite with a like new bore. The Canuck brand I also had at that time managed about half that, but at over twice the price. I’ve been told that old US made ammo is much more accurate, if you don’t mind spending a buck or two per round.
Bill Hanzel said
https://auctions.thegunrunner.com/lots/view/1-2B7DEB/winchester-model-1885-high-wall-32-scf-cal-single-shot-rifle-26-octagon-1-barrel-1887-antique
Given the rarity, I’d say this one sold way low.
steve004 said
Given the rarity, I’d say this one sold way low.
Disagree. Rarity brings a premium only when potential buyers are looking for it–there exists a significant demand, in other words. Rarity per se has no cash value–demand is what creates value.
steve004 said
Given the rarity, I’d say this one sold way low.
I agree with Clarence… rarity in of itself does not equate to elevated values, especially with the Winchester Single Shot rifle. First and foremost is the caliber/cartridge, with the bigger calibers bringing a lot more $$$$ than the small bore rifles in identical configuration and condition. The other factor is the specific variation… the Fancier grade rifles always bring more $$$$, and within the Single Shot rifles selections, there were three different variations of Fancy grade.
The graded condition of that rifle just simply did not justify the bid being any higher than it ended at.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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