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This thread shows 2 examples of this model. Added pictures to show the muzzle of mine. The other person who owns an identical marked 94 just a few dozen numbers away has the same Polished muzzle. I usually see an unpolished muzzle on carbines. But the chances of 2 guns both having it point to factory work in my view.
https://www.coltforum.com/forums/lounge/350567-does-anyone-like-winchester-94-src-s.html
Ooh LaLa!!! You won’t find one better!
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Hello all,
I’m the other person with the N&W Rwy Co. SRC that CJS mentioned. I bought mine from Rick Hill about four years ago, and as CJS said, mine has the exact same polished crowned muzzle. Condition of mine is near 100%. (Lint in the pictures). Al
I’m really interested to see if anyone else has one of these N&W marked model 94 carbines, or know of any. I am researching the Norfolk & Western Railway’s use of Winchester model 94’s and so far from what I’ve found they were bought by the railroad during the strike years of the 1920’s. I have two books I’m using to do research:
1. “Better Take Two Guns” The N&W’s Special Agents (Railroad Detectives) and their W.Va. cases
2. The True story of the Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency. An in-Depth Look at One of the Nations First Railroad and Private Detective Agencies.
If anyone has information, or one of these carbines let me know. My hope is to obtain enough research material to write an article about these for the magazine.
Thanks,
Al
November 7, 2015
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tionesta1 said
I’m really interested to see if anyone else has one of these N&W marked model 94 carbines, or know of any. I am researching the Norfolk & Western Railway’s use of Winchester model 94’s and so far from what I’ve found they were bought by the railroad during the strike years of the 1920’s. I have two books I’m using to do research:1. “Better Take Two Guns” The N&W’s Special Agents (Railroad Detectives) and their W.Va. cases
2. The True story of the Baldwin-Felts Detective Agency. An in-Depth Look at One of the Nations First Railroad and Private Detective Agencies.
If anyone has information, or one of these carbines let me know. My hope is to obtain enough research material to write an article about these for the magazine.
Thanks,
Al
Al-
Very interested in your article, thanks for the tip on those books. Few people realize that the railroads had their own police forces. Some still do today, I worked with a BNSF officer on a few occasions and have a lot of respect for what they do.
Mike
CJS57 said
This thread shows 2 examples of this model. Added pictures to show the muzzle of mine. The other person who owns an identical marked 94 just a few dozen numbers away has the same Polished muzzle. I usually see an unpolished muzzle on carbines. But the chances of 2 guns both having it point to factory work in my view.https://www.coltforum.com/forums/lounge/350567-does-anyone-like-winchester-94-src-s.html
Beautiful Winchester that you have there!!!!!
I have two 94’s that have the polished muzzle as well. A 38-55 carbine, and one in 32 W.S., pictured:
jwm94 said
CJS57 said
This thread shows 2 examples of this model. Added pictures to show the muzzle of mine. The other person who owns an identical marked 94 just a few dozen numbers away has the same Polished muzzle. I usually see an unpolished muzzle on carbines. But the chances of 2 guns both having it point to factory work in my view.https://www.coltforum.com/forums/lounge/350567-does-anyone-like-winchester-94-src-s.html
Beautiful Winchester that you have there!!!!!
I have two 94’s that have the polished muzzle as well. A 38-55 carbine, and one in 32 W.S., pictured:
Interesting. What’s the serial number?
Thanks,
Al
Al, my 32 is a 1924 piece and the 38-55 was made around 1927/8. I think the polished crown on carbines was a standard feature for a good while. Bert might have more information as to when Winchester began to polish the crowns and when they began bluing them.
James
Those are gorgeous examples. They obviously were never used. Thanks for posting the photos. Reminds me of the story about the Erie Railroad Winchester Model 1897 riot guns. Erie RR had purchased about 100 Model 1897 riot guns (possibly as surplus from the government) around 1920. most of them were in the 550,000 to low 600,000 serial number range. The Erie RR Police used some of the guns, but many were never issued. In the mid 1970s Conrail purchased the Erie RR and the shotguns were sold to a dealer who hoarded them away for years until some collectors stumbled upon them about 25 years ago. Some of the shotguns were in minty condition. There were some consecutive serial numbers. And they were still in their wooden crates.
jwm94 said
Al, my 32 is a 1924 piece and the 38-55 was made around 1927/8. I think the polished crown on carbines was a standard feature for a good while. Bert might have more information as to when Winchester began to polish the crowns and when they began bluing them.James
To the best of my knowledge and from what I have observed in the process of my research surveys, the muzzle crowns on the Carbines and Muskets were always blued as standard. Polished (in the white) muzzle crowns would have been a special order request only.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I had at one time, a near mint 94 SRC in .30 WCF that had a polished crown. I still own a beautiful SRC in .38-55, which also has a polished crown on the muzzle.
Bert, I am wondering if in your study of lettered 94 carbines you could tell an approximate number of letters specifying “Polished Crown”. Seems like an odd request in my view?
CJS57 said
Bert, I am wondering if in your study of lettered 94 carbines you could tell an approximate number of letters specifying “Polished Crown”. Seems like an odd request in my view?
Less than a handful. The number in the letterable range is very small, but when you consider that there were only 75,075 Carbines made in the letterable range versus the 276,780 rifles, the numbers should be small.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
To the best of my knowledge and from what I have observed in the process of my research surveys, the muzzle crowns on the Carbines and Muskets were always blued as standard. Polished (in the white) muzzle crowns would have been a special order request only.
Bert
I’m a bit surprised, but always ready to learn. Thanks for your comments.
What you say could be true as I simply don’t know. I have thought from day one that my 38-55 was special order, although it has an added triple bead front and tang rear sight that is not original, the wood finish, not the grain, certainly appears to be much better than typical, and my 32 has the Marble front and rear barrel sights with the Lyman 21. I have only owned two pre-1930 carbines and both have the polished crown.
I was not aware that you tracked polished-crowns on carbines. It must be a recent feature addition to your survey as it was not part of it for the first few years. What date did you start tracking this feature, Bert?
With this being the Winchester forum, one would think it should not be too difficult to find members or guests who own pre-1930 Winchester carbines that could offer up this information to us.
Checking Renneberg’s books, when he mention crowns on carbines, it’s in a picture that shows the polished crown of a lightweight-barrel, a special order in and of itself. Why would he form such a sentence, and at the same time mention crown of carbines? And, later in his book (2nd edition), p. 71, show two pictures of the muzzle of a carbine, while discussing the face of the magazine, with the early carbine having a polished crown, and the later one having the blued crown. A very interesting subject for folks like us.
One situation that comes to my mind about polished crowns and special orders is that I have never heard or read of such a request. Has anyone else here ever heard or read about such a request? Not saying that I do not believe Bert, but special order features on a Winchester has quite obviously always been a big deal in literally all Winchester circles. OTOH, one can see where given the choice between something so shiny and nice as a polished-crown and a blued one, why one would choose the former. Then again, maybe this was not an option, but a standard special order feature…for example: Why would someone ordering carbines for a railroad say, “Hey, polish the crowns” on standard Winchester carbines.
I just love this stuff. Thanks for the input folks!
James
James,
I do not specifically track (record) whether or not a Carbine has a blued or polished muzzle, nor did I state that I was doing that. As I previously stated, I have “observed” the muzzle crowns to be blued as standard while conducting my surveys. I do not have exact numbers, but I would estimate that at least 90+ percent of the Carbines I have physically looked at had a blued muzzle crown.
For what it is worth, the Model 1894 Extra Lightweight Rifle was not a special order item. Winchester specifically cataloged them as an available option (variation), just as they did with the Take Down Rifles.
In regards to a polished crown on a Carbine not being listed, I like you have never seen it listed in a catalog, but Winchester certainly did a lot of things on special request that were not necessarily listed.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I believe that I have to disagree with my good friend Bert. Over the years, I have owned well over a 100 collectible model 1894 & 1892 carbines. As near as I can remember, most had polished muzzles and the later guns (post 1928?) had the blue muzzles. Just as Bert, I didn’t specifically note or record this feature so it is a more of a remembrance than anything else.
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