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Winchester 1892 Trapper Carbine help
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November 1, 2021 - 1:09 am
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Hi all first post here! I am in the process of building an 1892 in 32-20 from the receiver up. I did a form 1 on the receiver (receiver was born in 1909) so that I can legally make it into a Short Barrel Rifle with the 14 inch barrel. I could not justify spending $10k+ for an original, so this is my poor mans way of getting one. 

I have gathered just about all the requisite parts I need with a few notable exceptions, if anyone could help me on my quest that would very much be appreciated.

I still need,

+ butt plate screws, I know there were several different styles but I can’t seem to find concrete info on what ones for the carbine

+ Magazine plug with no lip, can’t seem to find this bugger anywhere!

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November 3, 2021 - 3:43 pm
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Andy,

I suggest that you try to get a letter validating the configuration of the original gun as sold by Winchester. You cannot legally install a shorter barrel (less than 16-inches) on a receiver that was not originally equipped with it. Antique or otherwise it will make it subject to NFA rulings… in short it cannot ever be made into a legal firearm. ATF won’t even let you register it as a cleared curio and relic or register it as a NFA weapon. 

Just a little forewarning. The ATF can be a little cranky sometimes.

Regards,

Bob

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November 3, 2021 - 5:33 pm
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Agree with Bob with this one. Unless your 92 was originally a Trapper with barrel under 16 inches and you have the original gun & barrel restored. I don’t see how you wouldn’t be breaking the law by installing a shorter than 16 inch barrel on your 92.

If you’re wanting to have a shootable trapper 92 and going with “the poor mans way of getting one”. The only legal way to do that is to buy one of the modern reproductions. They’re produced / manufactured as “Pistols” and don’t violate the NFA.

https://www.chiappafirearms.com/product.php?id=99

A whole lot cheaper than making an illegal firearm and getting a fine and/or going to prison. And don’t think the feds won’t do it or come after you just for having it. That poor guy’s family at Ruby Ridge was killed all over a piece of wood being to short and that a simple slip over butt pad would’ve solved. So there’s a lesson in gun ownership for you.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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November 6, 2021 - 10:31 pm
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Bob Renneberg said
Andy,

I suggest that you try to get a letter validating the configuration of the original gun as sold by Winchester. You cannot legally install a shorter barrel (less than 16-inches) on a receiver that was not originally equipped with it. Antique or otherwise it will make it subject to NFA rulings… in short it cannot ever be made into a legal firearm. ATF won’t even let you register it as a cleared curio and relic or register it as a NFA weapon. 

Just a little forewarning. The ATF can be a little cranky sometimes.

Regards,

Bob  

Bob, a form 1, if you aren’t familiar allows you to create an SBR. It costs $200 and once approved the firearm is a registered NFA item. You are 100% incorrect. 

The gun will never be C&R again, but with the approved form 1 it can still be an SBR.

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November 6, 2021 - 10:33 pm
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Maverick said
Agree with Bob with this one. Unless your 92 was originally a Trapper with barrel under 16 inches and you have the original gun & barrel restored. I don’t see how you wouldn’t be breaking the law by installing a shorter than 16 inch barrel on your 92.

If you’re wanting to have a shootable trapper 92 and going with “the poor mans way of getting one”. The only legal way to do that is to buy one of the modern reproductions. They’re produced / manufactured as “Pistols” and don’t violate the NFA.

https://www.chiappafirearms.com/product.php?id=99

A whole lot cheaper than making an illegal firearm and getting a fine and/or going to prison. And don’t think the feds won’t do it or come after you just for having it. That poor guy’s family at Ruby Ridge was killed all over a piece of wood being to short and that a simple slip over butt pad would’ve solved. So there’s a lesson in gun ownership for you.

Sincerely,

Maverick  

Maverick, as I mentioned to Bob, an approved Form 1 allows you to create a legal SBR, and the rifle becomes a registered NFA item. The firearm does not have to originally be below 16 inches for it to be legal. The form 1 costs $200 and you are granted a “tax stamp” on approval.

The entire point of filing a form 1, is to create your own SBR legally. If you aren’t up to date on NFA law there is no point senselessly scaring people as you two have done. All sorts of people take a rifle that was originally more than 16 inches, filed a Form 1 with the ATF along with the $200 fee, and once approved are able to make their own SBR. 

If you don’t believe me here is an article describing the process: https://blog.refactortactical.com/blog/build-your-first-sbr-legally

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November 7, 2021 - 6:10 am
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Andy,

Not trying to scar or scare anyone. But the Feds did do what they did and even that was under a conservative.

 

I’m tracking with you now on you going the legal route. I’m assuming you’ve looked into it at your local level as well, before proceeding forward.

Still seems like a lot of trouble just to build a “14 inch Trapper 92”. Why wouldn’t you want a 12″ trapper? They’re even rarer!

So on your NFA firearm that you’re making, that you now have to register and get permission to leave your state with.

What kind of barrel are you going to make for it? Are you going to have an engraver put a “Winchester Barrel Address” on it? What kind of rate of twist are you using? What kind of steel? How are you specifically going to make the barrel?

The reason I ask, is if your not going to make it look authentic by making it a Fake or Reproduction or whatever term you want to call it. Then the truly “Poor man’s way” would to simply buy one of the modern Italian reproduction pistol mare’s leg. 

Also, Did you look into going the NFA Trust route?

Sincerely,

Maverick

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November 7, 2021 - 1:10 pm
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I would have to say it’s just a lot easier, cheaper, and less risky to just purchase an existing carbine with a 20” barrel.

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November 7, 2021 - 3:48 pm
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Andy,

First of all I was NOT trying to scare you — just inform. Truthfully, I was not familiar with Form 1 — I guess because I have never had a mind to use one. It would still be a long, risky and expensive path to follow just to end up with an essentially useless “frankenchester” — even more expensive by using the trust route — AND have the ATF know everything about you. Sorry for my ignorance. 

Thoughtfully,Embarassed

I have to respect Andy Villa’s note and the form 1 information but also note the gray areas in regards to the end result.

Bob

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November 7, 2021 - 7:46 pm
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mrcvs said
I would have to say it’s just a lot easier, cheaper, and less risky to just purchase an existing carbine with a 20” barrel.  

Please elaborate to why it is less risky? All I asked for was assistance locating 2 parts and y’all jump down my throat, and attack me. Jee what a welcoming. 

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November 7, 2021 - 7:52 pm
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Bob Renneberg said
Andy,

First of all I was NOT trying to scare you — just inform. Truthfully, I was not familiar with Form 1 — I guess because I have never had a mind to use one. It would still be a long, risky and expensive path to follow just to end up with an essentially useless “frankenchester” — even more expensive by using the trust route — AND have the ATF know everything about you. Sorry for my ignorance. 

Thoughtfully,Embarassed

I have to respect Andy Villa’s note and the form 1 information but also note the gray areas in regards to the end result.

Bob  

Bob please elaborate to “grey areas” there is absolutely no grey area at all with my project. It is completely above board and legal. NFA law is extremely clear on this subject. A form 1 takes 2 weeks on average, of which I already have it approved so not a long process, and there is absolutely no risk as it is legal. Not sure where this delusional risk you speak of is? 

Again not sure how a completely functioning firearm is by any means “useless” and the only thing non-original to the firearm is the barrel, I am not quite sure how that means the definition of a “frankenchester.” But since you seem so keen on bashing me, perhaps you’ll gift me $10k so that I can buy an original. The ATF already “knows” everything about me as I am a C&R FFL, and have numerous other NFA items in my trust. BTW my trust cost me $49, I would hardly call that expensive. 

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November 7, 2021 - 8:49 pm
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Andy,

Since your a C&R FFL holder, Does it still take 6-12 months to get your tax stamp?

And seriously, How are you planning on making the barrel? As I would hope your not planning on ruining a perfectly good original barrel. Authentic period correct trappers generally don’t have the markings in the same location as the standard production gun. You’re also going to need the shorter forearm and I would hope your not ruining an original one by cutting it down. Same for the magazine tube.

The other parts you’re searching for can be usually located on eBay, Gunbroker, etc. given a little time patience and searching.

Sincerely,

Maverick

P.S. I don’t think anybody is intentionally trying to jump down your throat. But I do think its good practice to encourage others not to accidently or intentionally commit a felony. Especially for someone that is new to the forum and is basically their first post on here. 

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November 7, 2021 - 10:21 pm
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Please be advised that Andy appears to “be in the tactical business” of making or marketing such weapons.

 

B

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November 8, 2021 - 1:19 am
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Regardless of whether your project makes sense or not:

Please note that the barrel band is also different from the 20 inch version. It is almost impossible to getting the correct one.

 

P1020024_klein.jpgImage Enlarger 

 

Stefan

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November 8, 2021 - 6:23 am
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Bob Renneberg said
Please be advised that Andy appears to “be in the tactical business” of making or marketing such weapons.

 

B  

Please be advised Bob has no idea what he is talking about. Wink

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November 8, 2021 - 6:29 am
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Maverick said
Andy,

Since your a C&R FFL holder, Does it still take 6-12 months to get your tax stamp?

And seriously, How are you planning on making the barrel? As I would hope your not planning on ruining a perfectly good original barrel. Authentic period correct trappers generally don’t have the markings in the same location as the standard production gun. You’re also going to need the shorter forearm and I would hope your not ruining an original one by cutting it down. Same for the magazine tube.

The other parts you’re searching for can be usually located on eBay, Gunbroker, etc. given a little time patience and searching.

Sincerely,

Maverick

P.S. I don’t think anybody is intentionally trying to jump down your throat. But I do think its good practice to encourage others not to accidently or intentionally commit a felony. Especially for someone that is new to the forum and is basically their first post on here.   

I am planning on ordering a brand new barrel from Winchester Barrels. I got a new production stock and forearm that will be custom fit. The only original part being modified is the mag tube. So in sum total the number of original parts being harmed by this project is exactly 1, and that one part is regularly available. I understand its not going to be perfect, and will be a replica, but all in for the project I am sitting at $1100. So with that said I am done justifying myself to a bunch of internet keyboard warriors who seem to take personal offense that I would even try to do something like this. 

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November 8, 2021 - 5:52 pm
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Andy, whatever happens please let us know how it turns out.  Most of us here only have some knowledge about registering an original short barreled rifle.  I don’t remember anyone building one from scratch and then getting it legal. 

The process is risky at best even for an original manufactured gun.  Good luck.

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