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SO maybe you already guessed Im new to winchesters and have what I think is a beautiful 1886 45-90 . I listed it for sale and was basically told it has NO collector value. eh …. So what I was thinking was re blueing refinish the stock and doing this myself as a project since it seems I cant do harm to this uncollectable rifle. I figured I would ask the folks who know before I decide .
It has a 21″ barrel which I am told is not correct and a half mag (threaded) which I’m told is not correct but I sure do like it anyway shoots fine very fun. I have attached a bunch o pics. I am really curious of the barrel markings it has a nice shamrock along with the VP oval and other inspect marks. Jump in and tell me what you think Im pretty thick skinned of say whatever you think and thanks to all……….. here is the link to lots of pics SN 133898A https://imgur.com/a/29ZGeT6
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Billy,
Unfortunately, your Model 1886 is in very rough condition. The serial number identifies it as a 1905 production rifle. The barrel and the magazine tube have both been cut down (shortened), the wood is worse for wear shape, the bore is dark and rough, and the receiver frame has no original finish left on it. Accordingly, it does not have much (if any) remaining collector value. Additionally, any additional $$$ spent on it (refinishing it) would be wasted in my opinion. That stated, any work you do to it will not hurt it at this point.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Online
Bert H. said
Accordingly, it does not have much (if any) remaining collector value.
Quite true, but there has fairly recently grown up a market for “old guns” made “new,” not among traditional collectors, but among a group of buyers who evidently aren’t satisfied with repros, but don’t want “used guns” either. I was amazed to hear of this when a dealer I’ve known personally for decades told me he could sell quickly any Doug Turnbull restoration he acquired. (Maybe in part because there’s a 2 or more yrs waiting time required for work from his shop.) Don’t know if this market is restricted to Doug’s work only, because I’ve heard of others capable of work equal to his in quality; they, however, aren’t frequently hyped in the Rifleman!
Any amateur restoration, on the other hand, is a horse of a very different color!
Also, the rear sight is not correct and is the type commonly found on Model 1894’s.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
clarence said
Bert H. said
Accordingly, it does not have much (if any) remaining collector value.Quite true, but there has fairly recently grown up a market for “old guns” made “new,” not among traditional collectors, but among a group of buyers who evidently aren’t satisfied with repros, but don’t want “used guns” either. I was amazed to hear of this when a dealer I’ve known personally for decades told me he could sell quickly any Doug Turnbull restoration he acquired. (Maybe in part because there’s a 2 or more yrs waiting time required for work from his shop.) Don’t know if this market is restricted to Doug’s work only, because I’ve heard of others capable of work equal to his in quality; they, however, aren’t frequently hyped in the Rifleman!
Any amateur restoration, on the other hand, is a horse of a very different color!
Clarence,
What is interesting about the guys who want Turnbull restorations instead of “repros” is that for the above rifle in question the only original part that you will end up with is the receiver and everything else on the gun will be replaced by Turnbull. So it is not very different from a reproduction. Unless the buyer thinks the gun parts are all Winchester original and not basically fakes.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Well thanks for all the replies I really appreciate it . Does anyone know anything about the shamrock stamp on the barrel????
It’s pretty rough but it does have some character. An amateur refinish job would wipe out the only thing it has going for it (character) and you would end up with something I would consider repulsive. Leave it the way it is would be my advice.
Discus420 said
Well thanks for all the replies I really appreciate it . Does anyone know anything about the shamrock stamp on the barrel????
The marking you refer to is most likely an inspector’s stamp during the barrel making process.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
Offline
Best I can tell from your pics the rifling is pretty well defined and it doesn’t surprise me that it’s a decent shooter. Apparently that’s the only value this old warhorse has to collectors. “Restorations” do seem to be gaining popularity with certain segments of the market but the ones I see for sale seem to be selling for less than the price of the restoration. If you want to spend the money Turnbull et al can certainly turn this rifle into something beautiful but all the character earned over the last 110+ years will be lost. I don’t think you’ll ever recover the cost of a restoration so if you elect to do a professional restoration I’d suggest you plan on keeping it from now on.
Bottom line, it’s your gun. I could enjoy it as is and I’d also like to have a nice Turnbull restoration someday. As a DIY project, I dunno. Unless you’re willing to make a serious investment in equipment and training I suspect it will not likely come anywhere close to a professional restoration. OTOH if you have the skills and ambition by all means go for it.
Mike
TXGunNut said
“Restorations” do seem to be gaining popularity with certain segments of the market but the ones I see for sale seem to be selling for less than the price of the restoration.
It’s the same with almost any high-quality restoration–esp., I think, antique cars.
If you’ve ever watched the “Rick’s Restorations” show (or whatever it’s called) on History Channel, the prices he quotes for his work are generally 2 or 3 times what the restored item could possibly be sold for, & I’m always amazed that his customers will pay it! (Assuming the show isn’t phony, which I somewhat suspect.)
clarence said
TXGunNut said
“Restorations” do seem to be gaining popularity with certain segments of the market but the ones I see for sale seem to be selling for less than the price of the restoration.
It’s the same with almost any high-quality restoration–esp., I think, antique cars.
If you’ve ever watched the “Rick’s Restorations” show (or whatever it’s called) on History Channel, the prices he quotes for his work are generally 2 or 3 times what the restored item could possibly be sold for, & I’m always amazed that his customers will pay it! (Assuming the show isn’t phony, which I somewhat suspect.)
TXGunNut is absolutely correct based on the prices one sees at Merz and similar sites. But rarity is always the compelling factor in price: how many extant 1892 Winchesters are there compared to how many 1933 Duesenberg Model J’s?
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
The whole, “restoration” topic is an interesting one as applies across the span of the vintage items people collect. Even in the firearms field, across the pond (e.g. England) restoration of vintage firearms seems to have little impact on their value. In the car world, there does seem to be a value emphasis on, “original survivors.” Have you ever watched the big tractor auctions on TV? Just about every single piece has been completely restored and everything brightly repainted. To me, they all look like a large version of a new toy just off the shelf. I suppose tractor collectors would argue that they look exactly like they did when they rolled off the production line. I really like old tractors and a bit of patina and faded paint is my preference.
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