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Here’s another from Don Grove’s collection. This one may have been the winner of the ten I presented with regards to value for the money. I don’t see anything wrong with this rifle. It has a significant amount of condition, especially for a First Model, and an octagon barrel with a button (described as 1/2) magazine, is certainly an uncommon configuration. I think that the $6300 hammer price ($7434 with the 18% commission) appears to be considerably on the low side, unless I am missing something?
https://www.wardscollectibles.com/auction/A97/viewitem.php?item=4012
I’m not seeing anything wrong beside the wrong sight elevator. Like most auction and retailers they are using the white background so the bluing looks dark so you can’t judge its true condition. I would say someone got a deal.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
I’m not seeing anything wrong beside the wrong sight elevator. Like most auction and retailers they are using the white background so the bluing looks dark so you can’t judge its true condition. I would say someone got a deal.Bob
What is the correct sight elevator and what does this one have? Like I said, I thought it to be 100% correct, but I don’t have the experience you have with the 1873s.
mrcvs said
1873man said
I’m not seeing anything wrong beside the wrong sight elevator. Like most auction and retailers they are using the white background so the bluing looks dark so you can’t judge its true condition. I would say someone got a deal.
Bob
What is the correct sight elevator and what does this one have? Like I said, I thought it to be 100% correct, but I don’t have the experience you have with the 1873s.
The early sporting rear sight elevators had steps parallel to the bore, not angled like the later 1884 variant. See photos below. The first shows a flat top sporting rear sight on 1873 rifle 15259. Second one shows a Buckhorn variant of an early sporting rear sight with the early elevator.
These early elevators are really tough to find.
Also, it’s my understanding the Don Grove was not a Winchester collector. He sold antique guns in order to fund his real passion, antique cars of the 1940’s-50’s.
I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder
1873man said
I’m not seeing anything wrong beside the wrong sight elevator. Like most auction and retailers they are using the white background so the bluing looks dark so you can’t judge its true condition. I would say someone got a deal.Bob
Bob, what is this early sight and elevator worth? I know where there is a 94 with one of these on it. Maybe I could make a trade.
Chuck,
Which one of the early sights.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
I’m not seeing anything wrong beside the wrong sight elevator. Like most auction and retailers they are using the white background so the bluing looks dark so you can’t judge its true condition. I would say someone got a deal.Bob
The rifle might be just fine, but based on those photos, I don’t feel I have good sense of it. If I only had those photos to go by, I would pass on bidding.
Chuck said
Left to right either #3 or #4. I would have to look at it again.
Chuck,
They are the most common sights for the first model and early second and would say in the neighborhood of $250 depending on condition. The left one is the reverse sight which are rare to find since only about the first 2500 guns had them. Then they used the same sight but milled it for putting in the later way with the dovetail forward but still hard to find.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
steve004 said
1873man said
I’m not seeing anything wrong beside the wrong sight elevator. Like most auction and retailers they are using the white background so the bluing looks dark so you can’t judge its true condition. I would say someone got a deal.
Bob
The rifle might be just fine, but based on those photos, I don’t feel I have good sense of it. If I only had those photos to go by, I would pass on bidding.
That was my guess as to why it went for so low. Poor photographs and/or something wrong with it. Then again, it did bring $14,046.72 in the previous auction, with a reserve on it. Someone thought it was worth this amount then, less than 6 months ago. The photographs were of such low quality that the rear sight elevator was barely indistinguishable as to if correct, or not, based on images on my I-phone.
1873man said
Chuck said
Left to right either #3 or #4. I would have to look at it again.
Chuck,
They are the most common sights for the first model and early second and would say in the neighborhood of $250 depending on condition. The left one is the reverse sight which are rare to find since only about the first 2500 guns had them. Then they used the same sight but milled it for putting in the later way with the dovetail forward but still hard to find.
Bob
Thanks. My second model has the 3rd from the left but it is packed away because the scope is on the gun. I don’t need the sight but I’d buy it for the right price.
After looking closer at the mag tube cap, it looks like its got a lip to it where it should be threaded inside the tube without any lip.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
After looking closer at the mag tube cap, it looks like its got a lip to it where it should be threaded inside the tube without any lip.Bob
When was the magazine tube cap produced with a lip?
I definitely need Gordon’s book to better learn production variations.
I have two nice 1873s already, but I got lucky with these. I definitely need to expand my Model 1873 horizons beyond Madis.
I should state a First Model Winchester 1873 rifle is something I would like to pursue as well. But a great chance of getting burnt, and 1873s that are early lack condition in most cases. What is a “fair” price for a rifle like this? I like the half/button magazine feature but don’t care for the replaced sight elevator and magazine tube cap. (I’m a purist). Having said that, a lower opening bid might have better caught my attention.
I am guessing many of the sight elevators with the parallel steps were lost as there wasn’t the angularity to keep them from falling out?
If the gun is original it’s worth twice the price. Why did it sell for 1/2 price? I wouldn’t buy a gun of this condition without taking it apart. T/R
TR said
If the gun is original it’s worth twice the price. Why did it sell for 1/2 price? I wouldn’t buy a gun of this condition without taking it apart. T/R
What would you have bid on this rifle as it sets, possibly an issue with the magazine cap and not the rear sight but just the rear sight elevator?
If the opening bid had been $4000 or even possibly $5000, I might have bid on it. I like the octagon barrel with the 1/2 magazine. Others might not.
1873man said
After looking closer at the mag tube cap, it looks like its got a lip to it where it should be threaded inside the tube without any lip.Bob
Where do you find out such obscure details?
In Madis’ book, I can find no reference to the lip, but it does clearly state the magazine cap threads into the magazine tube on early issues (before serial number 50,000.
After looking at a lot of guns you learn whats right and whats wrong. The Madis book is not the best one out there for learning what right with the 73’s because the quality of the pictures and lack of good examples. The Gordon book is a much better book.
Like the top picture in the Madis book they show no lip. I have a half mag 1st model with the rounded cap and it screws in just like the flat full mag tube cap. You can’t have a lip and turn the threaded cap on with out hitting the barrel. The one on this gun has a lip but it looks like it just on the bottom. Kind of like the cap on the 32 caliber 73’s but there the lip engages into a cut in the barrel and then a screw goes through the tube into the cap holding it place.
Bob
Edit: Correct the lighting on the picture so you can see detail
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
As Bob mentioned, after surveying many thousands of Winchesters, it becomes relatively easy to spot things that are not correct or unusual.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Okay, I’ll admit that Don Grove’s Winchesters intrigue me—simply because they seem so nice at first, and then a scholarly approach reveals problems. And so, since this rifle looked so righteous to me, but apparently isn’t, I ordered a factory letter for this rifle, since I have more searches remaining until the end of the year than I shall likely use. And, here’s how the letter came back—which means this 1876 production Model 1873 could have 1878 production features and still be correct. Meaning the rear sight and magazine tube cap might be correct and date from the 1878 refurbishment from carbine to rifle.
However, before you bless this rifle as being 100% righteous (or not), the letter states this rifle has a 28” barrel and the auction house describes it as being 26”.
I really need Gordon’s book, but they aren’t exactly available on every corner.
Here’s the letter:
WINCHESTER MODEL 1873 – SERIAL NUMBER 20068
Serial number application date not available
Type: Carbine
Received in warehouse on July 25, 1876
October 22, 1878 – Change to 28 inch, Octagon, 1/2 Magazine
Shipped from warehouse on October 23, 1878, Order number 13421
Date: September 03, 2024 – Searched by: jb/ab
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