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I had recently presented a comparison as to what Don Grove’s remaining Winchester lever action Winchesters sold for, relative to previously at auction with reserve, and at retail. Now, I am interested in a critique of 2 firearms in the auction. Here’s one of them. A Winchester 1866 Saddle Ring Carbine, serial number 14,412. To me, from the photographs, I believe the wood has been refinished. Any other problems noted, and what should one look for relative to these? And what are your thoughts relative to the sales price, $12,525 plus 18% commission, or $14,779.50?
I don’t own a Model 1866 and never have, but I still want to LEARN about them. The trouble is, dabbling in Model 1866s can present a real opportunity to get burnt.
https://www.wardscollectibles.com/auction/A97/viewitem.php?item=4010
I should also mention should this SRC be problematic, as with any collection, even the very best, a top notch collection might have some residual problem firearms as sometimes one has to buy a collection of junk to obtain one jewel. Perhaps this explains why a refinished Model 1895 rifle were one of these ten Winchesters from Don Grove’s collection?
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I’ve never owned a M1866 either so I’ll not venture an opinion on the authenticity. I did note that it sold well before the auction estimate range – which suggests that maybe other bidders knew something was up.
My other comment is that when we note, “problems” on various piece that have sold at auction, that doesn’t mean the winning bidder was fooled. It may well be that the observations we make were also made by the winning bidder, yet they decided to proceed anyway. 100% perfection in antique rifles describes the smallish minority of them.
steve004 said
I’ve never owned a M1866 either so I’ll not venture and opinion on the authenticity. I did note that it sold well before the auction estimate range – which suggests that maybe other bidders knew something was up.My other comment is that when we note, “problems” on various piece that have sold at auction, that doesn’t mean the winning bidder was fooled. It may well be that the observations we make were also made by the winning bidder, yet they decided to proceed anyway. 100% perfection in antique rifles describes the smallish minority of them.
RIGHT! Every Winchester has a value, and the winning bidder may have determined that there may or may not be problems, but it might be good or great value. For example, a Winchester 1 of 1,000 rifle might be reblued and refinished, but at $5000, it’s an excellent bargain.
On the other hand, pre auction estimates are sometimes, shall we say, jubilant?
mrcvs said
steve004 said
I’ve never owned a M1866 either so I’ll not venture and opinion on the authenticity. I did note that it sold well before the auction estimate range – which suggests that maybe other bidders knew something was up.
My other comment is that when we note, “problems” on various piece that have sold at auction, that doesn’t mean the winning bidder was fooled. It may well be that the observations we make were also made by the winning bidder, yet they decided to proceed anyway. 100% perfection in antique rifles describes the smallish minority of them.
RIGHT! Every Winchester has a value, and the winning bidder may have determined that there may or may not be problems, but it might be good or great value. For example, a Winchester 1 of 1,000 rifle might be reblued and refinished, but at $5000, it’s an excellent bargain.
On the other hand, pre auction estimates are sometimes, shall we say, jubilant?
Again, I’m not a M1866 guy and that includes have any sense for the pricing. Let’s say this carbine was completely right. In the condition it is in, is the auction estimate realistic?
But you are quite correct. Every Winchester has value and will sell. Even if the piece has multiple problems, if the purchasing price is favorable enough, the buyer can come out feeling very satisfied. And later, if some wise person remarks and says, “did you know the stock was refinished?” he can smile and say, “yup.”
I have always looked at Don’s guns on his web site and in person at Tulsa. This gun has the nice elevator on a poor brass receiver. On a 66 the brass patina is important. At times Don tried to enhance the patina on brass but you could tell easily in person. I think that is a strong price for the gun of that condition. Even though it’s a early Henry marked gun, it might have been fooled with. T/R
TR said
I have always looked at Don’s guns on his web site and in person at Tulsa. This gun has the nice elevator on a poor brass receiver. On a 66 the brass patina is important. At times Don tried to enhance the patina on brass but you could tell easily in person. I think that is a strong price for the gun of that condition. Even though it’s an early Henry marked gun, it might have been fooled with. T/R
I agree about the brass. It should have more patina. I don’t know how to describe it other than it has a “snowflake” look to it if original.
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