Winchester|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

Carl said
Can’t find nothing on my Winchester model number 94 as serial numbers 5627129   trying to find date made and what it’s worth almost new condition it looks like

  

Carl, I want to be a little bit more fulsome than my friend Bert, but you have to hold still for a little history:

Your Winchester Model 94 was not manufactured by the Winchester-Western division of Olin Industries, because, in early 1981, Olin Industries sold its Winchester gunmaking business but kept its Winchester ammunition-making business.

The gunmaking business, including a license to practice patents and use the various Winchester names and marks, was sold to a group of former Olin executives and some investors, who incorporated as the United States Repeating Arms Company, Inc.

However, the Winchester gunmaking operation continued in New Haven in the same factory, using the same employees, until 2006, when production of the Model 94 ceased altogether. (It was much later restarted in Japan but that does not concern your rifle.)

Because your 94 was made in 1991 it was made in the same Winchester factory in New Haven by the same Winchester employees,  but owned by and working for,  United States Repeating Arms Company doing business as Winchester Repeating Arms, instead of Olin Industries doing business as Winchester Repeating Arms. 

The original corporation formed around 1865 by Oliver Winchester and called the “Winchester Repeating Arms Company” went into receivership during the Great Depression and ceased to exist. The receiver sold all its tangible assets (equipment, real estate, furniture and fixtures, inventory) and all its intangible assets (brand names, logos, plans, patents, etc.)  to the Olin family, who put all those assets into what later became Olin Industries, sometimes called Olin Corporation and Olin-Mathieson Chemical Corporation. 

The principal interest of most members of WACA has been for many years in Winchester arms made before 1964. Even some of its hard core members will concede Winchesters made in New Haven until the end of 1980 are “real” Winchesters but anything after that is “not a real Winchester.”  That is not actually true, either in law or according to generally accepted American and international business practices.   What is true is that most serious Winchester collectors have little interest in Winchester arms made after 1964 and even less interest in Winchesters made elsewhere after the New Haven plant was closed.

Here’s a working definition: A “Collectible Winchester” is one made in New Haven before 1964, with some exemptions for unusually nice and desirable guns made before 1980.

Collectible Winchesters sell for a premium that depends on rarity, condition and popularity. 

Your rifle is not a Collectible Winchester, at least for the foreseeable future. It is, however, a much better-made Winchester than the cheapened Model 94 introduced in 1964 and made throughout the rest of the Sixties and early Seventies.  After that and particularly after USRAC bought the business from Olin in 1981, Winchesters became high quality products again, although fit and finish have never returned to the level of those made before World War II.  Still, by 1991 the Winchester 94 was a very good rifle,  just not a Collectible Winchester. Its resale value will reflect that. 

The best way to get an idea of your gun’s market value would be to join Gunbroker so you can search completed auctions. There are no dues. There may be a one time nominal fee for getting verified to be who you say you are, maybe ten bucks,  but no monthly fees. These searches look at a national market.

At the moment, I think Bert is in the ballpark. Remember, you are selling a rifle to use, and lever action deer rifles of medium power are no longer popular in many parts of the country. In Texas the typical deer hunter is more likely to buy a bolt action 243 or 270 with a scope. Hunting methods and deer habitat have changed. 

If you are interested in Winchesters, I encourage you to join WACA and participate in the forum. We all learn a lot here. I certainly have. 

TXGunNut said A trade name, even one as worshipped as Winchester, can and has been bought and sold, just like Bendix, Autolite, Fram, Timken and Chicago Rawhide, to name a few.
  

So sad to see great names in American manufacturing history like Bausch & Lomb, & others I can’t recall, misappropriated to peddle junk merchandise on TV, because their names & trademarks were put on the auction block by unscrupulous owners.  Most sickening of all was the sale of the name revered by sportsmen for a century, A&F, to a yuppie clothing merchant.  However, the Winchester name has so far remained in worthy, responsible, hands still producing quality products.

TXGunNut said
Maybe we could make your post a sticky, Bill. 

Fine idea!

A few thoughts about the Model 1894, post 1963 production:

1.  Over 7 million of these were manufactured, from 1894 until production ceased in 2006.  I don’t know how many are post 1963, as these aren’t the rifle (or carbine) for me.  (I collect earlier stuff, generally pre WWI and definitely pre WWII).  But a million was reached in 1927 and 2 million in 1961, which means the vast majority of these are post 1963.  Given the sheer number of these manufactured, you ought to see these lining the walls of gun shops, hundreds for sale at each and every gun auction, etc.  But you don’t.  And so these must be well loved, stashed away throughout America, probably by the original owner.  However, the earliest of these post 1963 Winchesters are now 60 years old.  It seems to me as original owners pass away and kids inherit firearms they have no use for, that a large number of these should become more available in the coming decades.  But, I digress.  The point is that post 1963 examples come available far less than one might expect, and there must be a reason for this.

2.  If you are younger, and appreciate firearms, despite your LIBERAL arts education trying to convince you that all firearms are evil—my hat is off to you.  But between student loan payments, a few kids, the exorbitant cost of child care, and high mortgage payments, you might not have more than a few extra dollars kicking around.  But, you are mesmerized by a WINCHESTER!  This is the rifle for you.  (Or, more correctly, likely a carbine).  It allows you to join the club without bursting your bank account.  It seems to me there will always be a group of collectors who fit this stereotype.  And, while not an “investment” that will exceed the rate of inflation, it will at least hold its value, eventually for sale to the next Winchester enthusiast who fits the aforementioned stereotype.

Henry Mero said
You will never convince Me that post 1964 Winchesters are not collectable, they are just not collectable to “some” of the die hard , older collectors who traditionally collected pre ’64 guns. As for the quality of these pre/post ’64’s, well some of the post ’64’s are every bit as well made as the pre ’64’s, and granted some are not.  But there are newer collectors coming along who are not familiar with the “older” guns or their values, and prefer the newer models. Out of 71/2 million mod. ’94’s, how many were made pre 1964 and how many after. I’ve said it before and am still of the same opinion, there are many collectable post 1964 Winchesters , some reasonably priced and some very expensive ’94’s out there for the collector who ,(like Me),  admires the scarcity of some of these pieces. It is very difficult to find , for example , a ’94 Wrangler, 16″, 38-55 , large loop lever that is new in the box, under $1500.00 or a 9410 deluxe Wrangler, and, well the Commemoratives are a whole different story, some of them selling in the $50,000.00 range and nearly impossible to find. So You can’t tell Me they are not collectable , just not to some of the “traditional” collectors. Same as when I got into collecting back in the 1970’s , the old timers then were collecting flint locks, Sniders, and single shots, 1894 collectors were “new comers” to collecting. So hang in there with Your “post ’64” Winchesters , they will come to be very highly prized collectables in time, if We , gun collectors” survive the current anti-gun sentiment of this current society. Just My  two cents worth.

  

I agree, Henry. Isn’t this where I press y’alls buttons on an added post-63 forum section? 😈😈😈 Just kidding, Bert….. well….maybe…. 🙂 

Great post and replies nonetheless. I have to read that “story” of WInchester repeatedly to keep it all straight.

I find it odd that the garden variety post 63 94’s are not on the market, maybe because of lack of interest? Not worth the trouble to peddle? I don’t know because for the most part I’m simply not interested in them. I also realize I most likely won’t live long enough to see them command a “collectible” price or the attention of a serious collector. There’s no denying a few special categories such as the 9422 are doing well. I don’t understand why some commemoratives are doing so well but they apparently are. I have no interest in a “Winchester” that was manufactured to be stored away, seldom handled and never shot, let alone hunted with. The guns I collect represent a period of history and some may have taken a small part in it. They were certainly used, carried and fired. A gun that was manufactured to be a collectable makes no sense to me and I know better than to participate in a market I don’t understand. They’re often beautiful guns but I’m not going to pay the asking price just to look at them now and then. I’m not knocking the folks who enjoy the commemorative items, fiscal constraints require that I focus my efforts on a narrow segment of the collectible firearms market and I’m more interested in other areas. That’s the beauty of collecting firearms, we all have slightly different tastes and interests.

Mike

Bert H. said
Mike,

I see hundreds of them listed in auctions all across the country and on Gunbroker. Most of them sell for < $400. Those that were manufactured in the years 1964 – 1978 (with the sintered steel receiver frames and stamped parts) are the worst of the lot, followed by the Ranger series that were introduced in the mid 1980s (with their Birchwood stocks). The guns that were specifically manufactured for K-Mart, WalMart, etc are also low quality klunkers.

Bert

  

Concur and those are the date ranges to avoid.  I remember being surprised when I first examined a new USRAC Winchester 94 in 1991 or 1992 [Mike, it was at Nix’s].  Didn’t need one but, right beside it was a new XTR 9422 that still resides in Issaquah.

The post divestiture USRAC Winchesters are as much a watershed as the post-63 New Haven guns. 

The Miroku Winchesters (and the earlier Browning branded siblings) are notably better in fit and finish than the Model 94 carbines produced in New Haven after about 1956.

The 1988-90 Browning reproduction Winchester Models 12, 42, 86, 95, 65, and 53 are still worth accumulating in NIB condition but would have been a better investment 20 years ago.