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steve004 said
Were some of these made in a .30-06 rimmed cartridge?
They were all made for a 30-06 Rimmed cartridge.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
steve004 said
Here’s one that was on auction eight years ago. I note they state it was .30-06 rimless.https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/57/1007/winchester-1885rifle-3006
That was/is an error in the listing. Somebody at RIA misinterpreted 30-06R for “rim less” when in fact, it means “rimmed”.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks Bert – that’s what I thought (on the cartridge being a rimmed version of the .30-06). I have never handled one and there was always the possibility what I had read was in error.
Bert H. said
They were all made for a 30-06 Rimmed cartridge.
Bert, is that letter you have posted, the first of the international rifles built? I noticed that it says it is now with Burton. Didn’t Burton develop the rimless extraction that is shown by the screw head on the left side of the receiver or am I wrong there? I saw two of these rifles at Jim Goergens and he told me that they were for the rimless thirty-ought-six but maybe he was mistaken as well.
Old-Win said
Bert, is that letter you have posted, the first of the international rifles built? I noticed that it says it is now with Burton. Didn’t Burton develop the rimless extraction that is shown by the screw head on the left side of the receiver or am I wrong there? I saw two of these rifles at Jim Goergens and he told me that they were for the rimless thirty-ought-six but maybe he was mistaken as well.
No, it is not the first International Match Rifle, that distinction belongs to serial number 106369, which was built specifically for Capt. Laudensack. The other (26) rifle were all patterned after that rifle, with the first one received in the warehouse being S/N 82015 on August 13th, 1913. The remainder of the I.M. rifles were all received on the 14th through the 18th of August 1913.
Jim Goergen was mistaken. That large headed screw on the upper rear left side of the receiver frame is not for the extractor. Instead, it is for the mandated safety locking device that was required by the Palma Match rules. By turning it 1/4 turn, it blocked the hammer from falling if the trigger was pulled.
I carefully examined the ledger records for all (27) of the I.M. rifles, and they all read the same. Frank Burton was involved in the manufacture of the rifles. Further, I had the opportunity to personally inspect (4) of the (27) rifles, and they were definitely chambered for a rimmed cartridge.
The pictures below are CFM factory letters, this time for S/N 101832 & 101263
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Here is another one. Note the CFM factory letter mistakenly states “rimless”, when the entry in the factory ledger (second picture) clearly states “30-06 Rim”
By now, I will assume that you realize that I have researched & studied this variant of the Winchester Single Shot in great detail.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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So, was the Single Shot never chambered for a rimless or semi-rimmed cartridge? I guess that makes sense, rimless and semi-rimmed cartridges were designed for repeaters. And with most repeaters, the extractor is part of the bolt. Rather embarrassed that I’m just now noticing that.
Mike
TXGunNut said
So, was the Single Shot never chambered for a rimless or semi-rimmed cartridge? I guess that makes sense, rimless and semi-rimmed cartridges were designed for repeaters. And with most repeaters, the extractor is part of the bolt. Rather embarrassed that I’m just now noticing that.
Mike
Correct, rimmed cartridges only.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Old-Win said
I am a long range black powder cartridge shooter that has shot many matches from 800-1000 yds as the they did during the 1874-1880’s matches. I have read a great deal on the Long Range matches between the Irish and the U.S. including what rifles were used during those matches and have never seen anything printed about a Winchester 1876 rifle being used. The primary rifles used were the Sharps Models 1874,1877, and the 1878 Borchardt along with the Remington Rolling Block. Towards the end of these, matches, an occasional Ballard or Maynard showed up but never made much of a mark. This is on our side of the pond. One of the criteria was that the rifle had to weigh 10 lbs or under and I don’t think that an 1876 weighs under 10 lbs. It would have to have been a one of a kind with at least a 1-20″ twist to stabilize a 500 + gr bullet to 1000 yds. to be successful. It is possible that the 1876 rifle was used in some kind of specialty match to win that prize such as the only one being represented. “To Encourage Rapidity and Accuracy”. An example would be, the well known marksman Milton Farrow, who won a Ballard rifle presented by the Company for shooting the highest score using a Ballard rifle. He won it, because he was the only one using a Ballard rifle. Milton supposedly was quite the “gamer”.I’ve also read David Minshall’s writings on the Creedmoor matches and he has done more research on them than anybody I know. I have posted his website as it has a tremendous amount of information. He resides on the other side of the pond and writes from the UK perspective.
Interesting that you mentioned Milton Farrow. There was a Farrow tang sight I was interested in on Ebay recently. The bidding of course got too high so it’s someone else’s now.
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