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I own an 1894 rifle which is a First Model gun (26″ octagon barrel rifle .38-55cal.) having the guide screws on the outside of the frame etc.. when I cycle the action the .38-55 cartridge flies out of the gun from the carrier when it flips up. I have owned this gun for about 54 years and have used it as a single shot many times but have taken an interest in getting it to work as it should. Not much information was available for many years but with the internet I am able to learn much more about this gun. I now know that I am missing what has been described in one Winchester book as a “plunger” on the left side cartridge guide. There is a slot in the guide that must have held this part. I am not certain that the carrier since is correct for the gun either but appears to be based upon the one photo I have been able to find. I guess what I am looking for is a diagram showing the parts of this rare version or photos of the parts particularly the carrier and this so named “plunger” part. I suspect that the lack of this part may be what is making the gun malfunction since it does appear to be guide related. The firearm is serial # 3149.
Take a look inside at the left cartridge guide. It should have a spring (pictured below–below the yellow straw). It bears against a notch in the carrier. If the spring is missing the carrier will travel further than it is supposed to. If it is indeed missing, you just have to find an early cartridge guide with the spring, remove the spring, and put it in your cartridge guide. Dont think it necessarily have to be a first model cartridge guide, I think the only difference in those that followed the first model is the way the screw holds them to the receiver. Dont have a first model to compare, this is from an 1894 in the 10K serial range.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
1892takedown, Thank you, Your explanation and photos pretty much explains everything I need. The search for a guide spring begins! 🙂
You will likely have to buy the whole cartridge guide with the spring (probably the pair–left and right, commonly sold as a set). The spring, if I remember right is “U” shaped as you can see in the pics with a flat tab on each end that sets inside a cutout on the back side of the cartridge guide.
Its been years ago but I vaguely recall disassembling a 94 and the spring fell out when I removed the cartridge guide–took a little finesse to get it back in place and cartridge guide affixed to the frame.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Thanks once again. Do you have an idea of the approximate serial number range when the conversion to the new style guides took place? By that I mean when the flat spring was no longer used. From what I have read Winchester would use parts until they were gone so I suppose they were used for several years.
Clipper47
The last of the first style receivers that I have any data on was s/n 7471, SNA 9-12-1895, in warehouse 10-14-1895, 38-55 sporting rifle. Don’t know if the that helps or if they used the same spring in the second model receiver.
I found a pic from a first model 1894 in 38-55 (SN 1658) my dad owned a few years ago. It has the same style cartridge guide (see below). Not sure of the correct terminology for the spring but looks to act as a carrier stop. Going from first to second model 1894 I dont see where the design of the cartridge guides would necessarily change, its just a matter of the screw entering from one side or the other. Ive seen the same cartridge guides up to 12K serial range, beyond that I dont know when they change.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
Is this the part? I am not real knowledgeable on the internals.
http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/pid_887.htm
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
No that is the carrier spring and my gun has one that works fine. The part I would need is a flat spring which fits into a slot on the left cartridge guide. Probably “unobtainium”.
I don’t remember seeing these before, but I’m tuning the feed on a 38-55 # 22xxx with inside screws that has that spring in the left cartridge guide.
If the serial number is truly in the 22000 range, you do not have a First Model 1894.
I have never found a parts diagram for a First Model, and it is very likely that none exist.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Chuck said
First post says 3149.
The post I replied to is by someone other than the OP.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
El Sid said
I don’t remember seeing these before, but I’m tuning the feed on a 38-55 # 22xxx with inside screws that has that spring in the left cartridge guide.
On the 1894 the left cartridge guide will have that spring up through at least the 85K serial range, and possibly a little beyond that. If it is not a first model 1894, then it is likely any left cartridge guide will work, whether it has the spring or not. The early ones with the spring and the later ones without the spring are basically the same from what I can tell.
So yes, the first model 1894’s have the spring as well as those that came later, the difference being first model cartridge guides have screws that affix the guide that are accessed from the outside of the receiver, whereas non-first model 1894’s have screws affixing the cartridge guide from the inside of the receiver–first vs. non-first model cartridge guide screws do not share the same location. Thats why first model and later cartridge guides are not interchangeable.
CH
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
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