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very suspicious "very short rifle"
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April 20, 2021 - 4:50 pm
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https://www.naturabuy.fr/Carabine-Winchester-1874-calibre-32-ws-model-trappeur-canon-41-cm-rare-item-7889025.html

 

the serial is 220 0xx (that’s all I managed to get from the seller…), making the original gun a 1904 made 32WS rifle.

 

Is the “trapper rifle” configuration something that ever existed?

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April 20, 2021 - 5:17 pm
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Winchester never did (i.e. back in the day) manufacture anything they called a, “trapper.”  I see in the description of this piece, they call it a “carabine.”  There is no aspect of this piece that qualifies as a carbine – other than perhaps the length (do we know the barrel length?).  So, it is a rifle, and in short rifle configuration.  Yes, Winchester did makes rifles that would have looked like this.  A short rifle with a button magazine and half round/half octagon barrel – they made them.  However, that doesn’t mean Winchester rifle this way.  Many rifles were later cut down to a shorter length and my impression is that is what happened here.  However, the photos are very poor so it’s difficult to say with certainty.

By the way, I might have made a harsher statement about this rifle but it is, after all, a .32 Special  Cool

It would probably handle well in the deep woods that I used to hunt in.

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April 20, 2021 - 5:44 pm
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Quite possibly an original — note the super short rifle style forend wood, no saddle ring and a rifle butt. It’s a short rifle not a carbine. If it checks out (needs a hands-on and some critical measurements) it’s a super-rare bird. Especially in 32spl!! I don’t particularly like the caliber marking or the possible (unusual) crack in the receiver top but there is no proofmark which would be correct for the declared vintage. Probably a 16-inch barrel or maybe even less. Post more info if you can get it.

Cheers, B

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April 20, 2021 - 6:04 pm
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To me, the most glaring problem is that the rear sight is not moved closer to the receiver face.  I would put my money on an altered rifle.

Michael

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Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation

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April 20, 2021 - 6:14 pm
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The short forearm adds to the intrigue.  The rifle is in the letterable range.  A call to the Cody museum should tell the particulars of what the features were when it was shipped out.  If original configuration, it would be rare and possibly one-of-a-kind.

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April 20, 2021 - 6:26 pm
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Michael, odd looking but not impossible, I concede it is very unusual/suspicious and it does seem like a very unusual special order. What would have happened to an originally placed dovetail ?? and it goes against the sight radius advantage (the need for a hands on).

B

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April 20, 2021 - 6:44 pm
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I see wrench marks on the barrel near the receiver that have been filed down.  Also, the magazine cap doesn’t look like the proper rounded “button” type.  

Don

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April 20, 2021 - 7:20 pm
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In my limited knowledge, I have to agree with Michael’s assessment regarding the rear sight being too far forward? 

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April 20, 2021 - 7:41 pm
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freebird1968 said
https://www.naturabuy.fr/Carabine-Winchester-1874-calibre-32-ws-model-trappeur-canon-41-cm-rare-item-7889025.html

 
the serial is 220 0xx (that’s all I managed to get from the seller…), making the original gun a 1904 made 32WS rifle.
 

Is the “trapper rifle” configuration something that ever existed?  

In my opinion, it it is a cut down (altered) Sporting Rifle.  The forend stock is way too short (approximately 6.5 inches long), and the barrel length appears to be in the 14 – 15 inch range. The magazine tube should barely protrude through the forend cap and have the rounded end cap.

Bert

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April 20, 2021 - 8:45 pm
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Owing to the very poor pix and some very notable discrepancies, buying this gun (especially from Europe) is a total non-starter. I still have problems with sight location as even a shortened specimen would not exhibit this – I would definitely like to know the answer to that one. The forend cap tenon dovetail and workmanship thereof could also contribute to the more obvious problems.

Regards to all,

B

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April 21, 2021 - 1:05 am
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    This is just a made up shooter, illegal most places.       Somebody   has cut down an octagonal barrelled rifle.  Turning to half octagonal has removed the

     dovetail where nose cap was.    The Carbine sight makes the sight look further forward then it really is.     Eric

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April 21, 2021 - 1:14 am
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Eric Ryan said
    This is just a made up shooter, illegal most places.       Somebody   has cut down an octagonal barrelled rifle.  Turning to half octagonal has removed the

     dovetail where nose cap was.    The Carbine sight makes the sight look further forward then it really is.     Eric  

This is of course the probability.

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April 21, 2021 - 5:33 am
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Thank you all for confirming my very deep suspicions.

the seller measures the barrel at 41cm, that would make it 16″

as for the “carabine” thing, it actuallt means “rifle” in French, a carbine being a “mousqueton” Laugh, so the seller had that part riight.

This gun is virtually impossible to sell in France, as it is restricted and requires a specific renewable authorisation to own. Only it’s rariry might have convinced a collector to do it, hence why the seller claims it is original.

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April 21, 2021 - 11:07 am
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freebird1968 said
Thank you all for confirming my very deep suspicions.

the seller measures the barrel at 41cm, that would make it 16″

as for the “carabine” thing, it actuallt means “rifle” in French, a carbine being a “mousqueton” Laugh, so the seller had that part riight.

This gun is virtually impossible to sell in France, as it is restricted and requires a specific renewable authorisation to own. Only it’s rariry might have convinced a collector to do it, hence why the seller claims it is original.  

Hello, even if we know that Winchester was able to manufacture this kind of model on special order, the doubt is total on this rifle.
in addition the seller said that there are no markings on the top of the barrel (except caliber). I think that last item, added to those you already detected, ends any possibility of original configuration.




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April 21, 2021 - 12:31 pm
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I don’t know if it’s right or not , and I wouldn’t say without hangin’ onto it, but it shore is cute

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

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April 21, 2021 - 1:10 pm
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That’s actually why I posted it here.
Many things ring the bell as to originality, but the overall result looks very “Winchester” to me (If that makes sense)

 

However, after reviewing the latest answers tour queries, the fact it is a cut down and modified (from octogonal to semi-octo) rifle is undeniable.

The rear sight dovetail is 5 inches from the receiver (as measured on screen in comparison withe the 16″ barrel) => hence rifle.

the transition from octagon to round also does not meet usual Winchester procedure (it should extend a bit out of the handguard)

there is no “Manufactured by…” marking anywhere on the barrel. On a normal length rifle, it would have been on the top flat that is now… round… (as Jeanghis stated above)

Many thanks for your input.

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