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Im thinking of selling but have no idea of the current value. My dad purchased this gun 40 years ago and it’s been sitting in the safe since then. I’ve been informed that it has probably been refinished at some point. It’s in the same condition as when my dad bought it. But it does look to good for it’s age.
None the less, it’s a very nice rifle.
its a 22 short.
i have a interested party, but I need to come up with a price.
Yes indeed, a very nice, and interesting Model 1885 First variation Schuetzen Rifle.
Based on my research, it was the very first Model 1885 Schuetzen Rifle made in .22 rim fire cartridge. It was also the first of two identical rifles that shipped on the same date and order number (serial number 77512 was the other rifle). It is one of just (49) First variation Schuetzen Rifles made, as the majority of the Schuetzen Rifles were Second variations.
I cannot determine if it has been refinished, or if it is original based on the pictures you posted. Can you take the rifle outdoors (natural light) and take close-up pictures of the receiver frame, and the Winchester address marking on the barrel ?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
The first pic has a little glare from the sun. The last two pics were taken in the shade.
Offset brl. markings suggest it was special ordered for mounting a scope…except that detachable scope mountings hadn’t yet been invented when the gun was built. Any scope contemporary with the gun would probably have required dovetail slots cut in the brl.
Many of these guns were modified for target shooting in the 1900’s to suit the shooter.
cwachter said
Many of these guns were modified for target shooting in the 1900’s to suit the shooter.
How would post-mfg. scope mounting account for the offset markings…unless the gun was re-barreled at the same time?
From your second set of photographs, the case colouring has been redone, as this is not what original case colouring would look like, and wood has been refinished as well. Presumably, it has been reblued as well, but the photograph showing the barrel markings suggests otherwise, so maybe not. The refinishing/recasecolouring really hurts the value, unfortunately.
Others will be along to give you value estimates, but had this not been refinished, low five figures might have been possible. As is, lower four figures is probable.
The barrel is not original to the receiver. Based on the factory marking type and location, it is a post-1910 production barrel. The case color finish on the receiver frame is not factory original, so Yes, it has been refinished. The replaced barrel and the non original finish on the receiver negatively impact the value of the rifle in the collector market, how much is going to be decided by the eventual buyer.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
clarence said
How would post-mfg. scope mounting account for the offset markings…unless the gun was re-barreled at the same time?
Clarence,
The offset markings have nothing to do with mounting a scope. Winchester moved the markings to the left side of the barrel on all Winchester rifles beginning in late 1907. And yes, that rifle was rebarreled.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks for the information. I figured the gun had been refinished sometime in its past, but had no idea about the barrel. I’m sure previous owners used the gun, not sure why a barrel would need to be replaced but I guess it needed it.
I can’t change what’s been done, but it’s still a very nice looking gun and it’s fun to shoot. And you just don’t see them around much, at least I don’t.
I guess I’m back to guessing what it’s worth. I would think it’s still worth a fair amount. Not five figures but I see where a plain repo is listed for $1500 or so. I’ll have to see what the interested party is looking for. I’ve been told he just likes high end guns, not that he is a antique collector. And I would still consider this a high end gun, at least it was in its day.
Dmc said
I guess I’m back to guessing what it’s worth.
You won’t have to guess if you list it on Gun Broker, or some other auction site, using the photos you’ve already made, & being careful to disclose every “defect”–the refinish, replaced barrel, etc. The many bids it would surely receive will provide a good ballpark figure. To avoid the chance of selling at a price you consider too low, just put a high reserve price on it.
Bert H. said
The barrel is not original to the receiver. Based on the factory marking type and location, it is a post-1910 production barrel. The case color finish on the receiver frame is not factory original, so Yes, it has been refinished. The replaced barrel and the non original finish on the receiver negatively impact the value of the rifle in the collector market, how much is going to be decided by the eventual buyer.Bert
I doubt that the stock was original to this receiver as well. Wasn’t going to beat it up on my first post.
cwachter said
I doubt that the stock was original to this receiver as well. Wasn’t going to beat it up on my first post.
Because of the shape of the cheek-piece–which looks more like that of a Special Sporting model? Looks different on later Schuetzen models, but if this gun was one of the first Schuetzens, maybe the later stock design hadn’t yet evolved?
clarence said
Because of the shape of the cheek-piece–which looks more like that of a Special Sporting model? Looks different on later Schuetzen models, but if this gun was one of the first Schuetzens, maybe the later stock design hadn’t yet evolved?
The wood does not fit correctly around the receiver. Too many gaps.
cwachter said
I doubt that the stock was original to this receiver as well. Wasn’t going to beat it up on my first post.
Chuck,
It letters with that stock. The First variation Schuetzen Rifles had the same style Swiss cheek piece as the Special Single Shot Rifles. The difference was the butt plate. The rifle in question has the correct Helm pattern butt plate.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
cwachter said
The wood does not fit correctly around the receiver. Too many gaps.
The wood has been refinished… but it is original to that rifle.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Dmc said
Wood fit looks very good to me. Maybe not the best light or pics.
It has been refinished.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
It has been refinished.
Bert
I agree with that. The case coloring and wood look to be in to good of shape. I don’t think the barrel has been reblued, it showed some age.
If the local buyer doesn’t purchase the gun I guess I’ll order a Cody letter. And then decide what to do.
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